"Competent" NAVF players

I sense penis envy.

 

Man, there's alot of beef going on here.

 

Back to the original point of this thread, I think we need to define what me mean by competent. My good friend Webster says that competent means: "properly or sufficiently qualified: capable."

I guess we also have to then define what our standard is. If our standard is being good enough to win tournaments in Japan, to win tournaments in the west, or to just plain beat the hell out of our friends.

I will suppose that we are trying to define "competent" by "a broad range of understanding."

If we are to call someone an incompetent player using X character, this may not necessarily even be an attack on his use of a certain character, but moreso an attack on his understanding of the game as it applies to all characters (i.e. the game system). A Shun, for example, must not only know the properties of his moves and when to employ them, but also defensive tactics that apply to all situations (be it throw escaping, evading, or delayed uppers).

It is entirely possible for somebody to be a competent VF player but not "competent" with a certain character. Or vice versa.

And even competence alone does not make one a superior player. There are mind games. There are times when your hands cannot keep up with your thoughts. There are times when you just plain get your ass beat.

I have met and played against many VFers, and I would consider Kurita the most competent of the bunch. He knows how to handle situations with characters he does not even use (and even their inputs!). And yet you see him with around a 65% winning percentage. Knowledge, it seems, is NOT simply power.

Of course we cannot lose sight of why we are playing in the first place. We play because it is fun. Even when you lose, if you feel you have learned something in the process, there is something to be gained. And even when you win, you sometimes know that you could have done many things better. That is something far more personal and subjective than knowledge of the game itself. Some play to have fun, some play to understand, some play to just plain whoop ass. But I think it's safe to say that we all play because we love the game.

Let us not get too caught up in our words.

That said, there is some major shit on the wall now and I hope we get some intense matches in at Evo!

Apologies for my longwindedness.

 

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Zero-chan said:

BUT CANADIANS SUCK AT VF SO YOUR OPINION IS WORTHLESS. Or so this gem from Shou, culled from a not-so-secret source, says.

Anyone wants the source, feel free to mail me.

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I'll agree with your point that overall the NAVF scene is poor but not for the reasons you mention. I'll be very blunt with you and I'm certain Ali & Heidi will try to twist my words or just discredit me in some way. The truth is that you haven't been exposed to the "real" US VF community. Toronto is a has been scene which hasn't been good since VF2. Canadians are not good at VF4.

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I am not a scenester, in spite of my 10-year fanaticism for the series. Le sniffle.

So to be a scenester, do I need a special password and handshake, or what?

Can we call this "Andyitis"?

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Yes apparently, everyone in TO plays to have fun -- which, as it has been mentioned in other threads, is the WRONG way to play VF. You must have a mindless drive to win and only use the three or four moves that have the biggest risk:reward ratio. No trying anything new, no playing with style. There are some exceptions in "scene" however.

None of the TO gang are scenesters either -- in spite of the fact that we have had something going on in TO since day 1 and that we will continue to play this game until we die. I think you do need a password, but we can't seem to get it right with our thick Canadian accents.

*shrug* This group of people went to hell in a handbasket along time ago.


kbcat

 

[ QUOTE ]
GodEater said:

For myself I'd like to know one thing: Who is moderating the moderator? Anyone? Can I assume that if anyone steps out of line (as Shou sees it) then banning and post editing is a go? If civility is merely a facade or formality then why bother?

GE

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I would assume that the control of the Moderators falls to ICE or Myke. ICE is really just a phantom now, and Myke's philosophy has always been darwinian -- let nature take it's course and everything will sort itself out. Unlike Shou, Myke does like to wield his power and I certainly respect that.

Facades are so much nicer to look at than the real thing!



kbcat

 

To a certain extent, I'd agree. Toronto has always had it's share of strong players at the time when the game was fresh in the arcades. With the arrival of PS2 VF4, the scene died significantly and the resulting quality of play diminished. However, there is something that the quote does not take into account that kbcat has alluded to. Toronto's scene, the core 3-4 players that have been around forever, love this game and love this game still. We play because we find the game a blast. From VF to EVO, we love this game. We travel from time to time to various gatherings and/or tournaments, play in the middle of the pack, and enjoy ourselves.

That is the difference between our scene and the scene that Shou describes in his response to Reno LJ. Shou has invested an incredible amount of time and effort into VF4. It's work and VF4 for him - at least, that's my impression. For many of us, it's a life balance with VF being a hobby to enjoy. We have wives, children, houses, jobs, families that are vastly higher on the list of priorities. For Shou, this is not the case. It's VF4 and work. And that's great - it works for Shou and satisfies his desire to be highly competitive and extremely competent in VF4. From my experience playing Shou, it's paying off as he is a very strong player. Would I ever dedicate that much time and effort into VF4? Not likely - I have little desire to be tremendously better at the game. In light of all this, I think that the VF4 lifestyle has its setbacks - lets take EVO coming up as an example. There's now an enormous amount of pressure on Shou to do very well at EVO. I certainly hope he does very well - and by that I mean hands-down the best NA placement and no one above him other than the tetsujin japanese players who may make it. If he screws up, loses somewhere along the way, then it will be very difficult to justify the comments of competency said earlier. And for Shou, it will be hard to handle as well - I mean all that time, and reading and knowledge and practice and to have no worthy placement or victory in the largest VF4 tournament - that would be incredibly disappointing.

Anyway - a terror of a scene is certainly not something that Toronto VFers desire. We play the series because we love it. We love tournament settings and the arcade atmosphere the created this community. We love VF when comes down to it.

<font color="yellow">.cheers.</font>

 

Awww I'm a BIT more than a phantom. But my philosphy towards this site is also Darwinian/Republican...as little government intervention as possible. Plus, Myke is hands-on enough, and certainly more mature than me, that I trust his judgement in how he wants to handle these kinds of situations.

However, I do think changing the intent of another's post by directly editing its content is going a little bit far as general moderating practices go.

 

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However, I do think changing the intent of another's post by directly editing its content is going a little bit far as general moderating practices go.


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Nein. Es ist sehr gerecht und zumutbar.

 

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I <3 VF

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Awww - FAG /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

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Shou said: You must feel like I'm attacking you as a player.

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Shou said: I wouldn't have called him (Namflow) competent.

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I wonder where I got that crazy idea you were attacking me from? Maybe it was when Llany (someone who, at that time, had played me far more than you had) simply implied I was competent and asked if you agreed and you said you didn't. I'm sure if I posted somewhere saying "Shou is incompetent at VF" you'd think something of it.

Attack or no attack, even without hostile intentions, to get on here and post that another player is incompetent at the game is beat. Who are you to say who is competent and who isn't?

It's not like I'm getting on here and posting I'm one of the top players in America (unlike someone I know), all I'm saying was it's really rude to call someone incompetent at their hobby. I mean it's just a video game and I ain't saying I'm awesome at it or that I'm gonna go win me some tourneys, but I will go on the record and say I'm at the very least competent at VF, and was competent at Top Gun. Of course Kazu and Ryan were better than I was and both had winning percentages against me, but that doesn't make me incompetent at the game.

When I hear the word incompetent I think of someone who doesn't block, doesn't tech roll, and mashes all the time. When I hear the word incompetent I think of someone who just picked up the game and has no clue what they're doing. I think if you know enough about the game to get better while playing (even if you lose) then I'd call you competent.

I know our ideas of competence differ, so I'd still like some elaboration on what these "VF concepts" are that EVERY incompetent North American VF player was missing at Top Gun. I'd also like to know how you can say you have a full understanding of VF now. Like what exactly was the turning point from scrub to 1337?

[ QUOTE ]
Shou said:
there are 0 competent home grown Shun users in the West

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[ QUOTE ]
Shou said:
At that time, not one US player was competent.


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Actually it sounds like you're attacking all of the American VF players with special emphasis on the Shun players. Am I the only one who thinks calling every American player incompete is a bit extreme?

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Shou said: I did say every US player at that time was not competent. To say IMF didn't get mauled based upon one match is ridiculous.

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The point I'm making is that since IMF beat Ryan Hart in a tournament setting that IMF was competent at the game. There's no way someone who was incompetent at VF could defeat a player like Ryan in a tourney. And just to say, I think the tourney was best 2/3 /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

[ QUOTE ]
Shou said:
Do you want others such as IMF and Cappo to qualify what I'm saying by posting they agree?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I'd love to see IMF post and say "I was incompetent at Top Gun."

 

Would make sense if he would have actually warned me BEFORE editing my posts.
The warning came in VFHome where he outright told me that if I posted again I would be banned, which then of course happened.

 

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1337

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I think I've seen this a couple times now, with the 1 sometimes substituted with an l. I must be getting old but...what the heck does it mean??

 

1337 = LEET

meaning: elite

(totally h4rdc0r3!!1)

 

man FUCK YOU myke!
Shou is a fucking idiot and everyone here knows beside a couple of his blowing buddies. How long did he suck your cock before you gave him mod here? Jesus for god sakes Shou, before you calling other people incompetent look at yourself! The self proclaimed #3 player in the US? LOL quit joking, you can't even win a fucking tourney in your life. All you do is bitching and whining, "oh he sucks, oh you suck" Please okay? This coming from a guy who lost a tourney to a person who he can "beat 100% casual". What a fucking cockjocky. Take a look around the net every clip is shou getting ass rimed by some jp player
Namflow might not understand all of the "vf concepts" like you do, but he fucked you up! along with imf/b1 and everyone else there at topgun. I slept in the same hotel room with them and basically b1 cried all night about namflow owning them. So please shou fuck off, your personality sucks and you vf skill isn't far behind. and quit that whining about "i'm tired", "I don't get comp", "if I was in jp i'd kick ur ass" oh please get top 3 in evo this year or stfu, cuz you fucking suck in vf!

 

I guess I better take my sig off cuz that wa sactually pretty funny

 

Shou why don't you post something? How does it feel to be owned on the very board you mod?

 

The Shou Collection:

1, When I say competent, please realize that I mean players whom fully understand & apply VF concepts and game/system knowledge

2, few players in NA are using tactics such as delayed launchers to beat it or even other advanced defensive strats and that is what i'm referring to as incompetent

3, not one US player was competent. Please understand that am I not being elitist, merely realistic.

4, It wasn't until last December that I truly understood VF.

5, You must feel like I'm attacking you as a player. Please seperate your emotions and logic here.

6, This is a real discussion and if you or your cronies don't want to participate constructively then just move on.

7, At most, it's an insult and then some not so subtle praise for himself for some gaming related thing which no one here cares about

8, The truth is that you haven't been exposed to the "real" US VF community.

9, Only Shang is going out of his way to flame people and he's not even that good

10, Shou = Super Human Omniscient Unit

And finally

11, I've travelled to every major VF scene in the US and I am one of the best in the country

 

"The truth is that you haven't been exposed to the "real" US VF community. Toronto is a has been scene which hasn't been good since VF2. Canadians are not good at VF4. SoCal is a very isolated scene which does not have much contact with the compettiive players. They very rarely travel and stay within their group. The main scene is in NYC and there are a handful of dedicated competent players scattered across the rest of the country."

Nice, Eric. From reading this, it's clear that in your mind, only a few people outisde of NYC are even "Competent", "dedicated" or "real players". What an asshole. If we're not even worth considering as good players, why don't you just stay at home from now on?

I know why: because just like Andy, you want to come here, play with us, and then get off feeling like you're better than everyone else, and go back to IRC or wherever talking about how you owned us... we'll get to that in a minute. Seriously, if you're gonna write this kind of garbage on a public website, you're obviously not here to make friends (because if you were, you'd care about people's feelings, and wouldn't write horseshit like this); so don't fucking come here you asshole.

Everyone in Socal has always welcomed you, Eric. I remember when you didn't even fucking PLAY VF; when you showed up at my house for the E3 gathering saying you'd come to play DOA2, that was your game. I didn't shun you, laugh at you, everyone was glad to meet someone new.

Next year, when you did participate, and were getting better, no one whispered behind your back "that Shou guy, he's not so good, doesn't really understand concepts of the game..."

Then at EC4.5, everyone was telling me how fun it was to play your Akira, how they'd "never been SPoD'ed that much in their life". It seemed like you had developed a nice friendship with Mike92123... People here gave you props for being fun to play with, and a good player, and we thought you were a cool guy.

Now, it's obvious that you're obsessed to getting to the "top" of the NA VF popularity contest. People here like to think this is about skill, when in reality, as kbcat pointed out, it's more about:

"a mindless drive to win and only use the three or four moves that have the biggest risk:reward ratio. No trying anything new, no playing with style (note: from all the videos i've seen, the only player on everyone's "hot" list that breaks this mold is Maddy)."

In my mind, there are 2 ways to get to the top of anything:

1. excell at what you do, rise to greatness by your ability, and inspire those around you to do their best as well. Work together, be yourself, and people will help you lift yourself up

2. start at the bottom, grab the dick of the guy above you. pull yourself up by tugging on his dick, then when you're ascended to his level, as he bows to greet you as an equal, quickly jump on his back, and grab the next guy's dick while the first guy isn't looking! Tell the next guy you now realize that you shold be up here, not down there with the last looser, grab this new dick, and repeat...

If you moved to Japan Eric, I'm sure it would only be a few weeks before you'd make new friends, and be telling them all how Maddy, Adam, Kaz, Cappo etc all aren't "competent", "dedicated" or "real". I've known for a long time that this was your way of doing things, and you've always wanted to be able to look at yourself as one of the best VF players in the US. So now that you're there, and people say they think you're one of the best, does that outweigh the fact that there are now also plenty of people that (would seem to) think you're an asshole?

This online/offline shit doesn't wash with me: if you're talking shit about me and/or my friends online, offline, wherever; saying that you're better than us, we aren't at your level, then seriously (speaking for myself here, don't know how my homies feel) FUCK OFF. I'd rather not see you around anymore.

After we've all welcomed you repeatedly, this is how you repay us, and everyone else in this scene that was here before you, that welcomed you? Talking petty shit about how we aren't as good as you behind our back?

Oh, and on that note, here's a little history lesson that people outside of Socal might not know about:

In the last 3 or so years, Shou has come to Socal many times, and played in many tourneys. Here's the record:

E3 (2002 I think?): VF4 version C, Shou doesn't place anywhere memorable.
1. Ice-9
2. spotlite (I got kucky here /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif)
3. Feixa Q

I think next was
EC 4.5
Again, Shou places off the map
1. Yusuke (Akapan)
2. Spotlite
3. I THINK it was mike92123... or joey maybe? andy? tomhilfigger?

EC4.5 mini team battle
team TNT (Texas & Taiwan) Spot, Andy, Joey
vs.
Shou, Mike 92123, Akapan

team TNT wins

E3 2003 baby tourney, at Hat Brian's house (the outdoor tourney)
I can't remember who won this, maybe Andy or Joey (I think Joey?), I just remember that I beat Shou /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Evo 2004
Shou didn't place any better than the other NA players who got 3rd in their blocks, a couple of who were from Socal (has ot be said that our 2 best players couldn't play in this tourney because of work/school: Joey and Andy). No one from NA cracked the top 2 in any block.

EC5
this one was pretty recent, just a couple months ago
1. LA Andy
2. Shou
3. Ken I (LA)

I only played with shou 2 sets of 3 this day, one b4 the tourney, which I won, and one during, which I lost to put me out of the tourney. But, the real cute factiod about this tourney is that upon loosing, Shou turned to Andy and said "Pai's tiered higher than Sarah, so..."

what a bitch. If it's all about tiers, shouldn't I have won, using Akira and all? How'd I loose to a Brad player, isn't he tiered weakest? I've lost a LOT of final matches in my tourney history (I'm notorious for it), but I've never felt the need to try to pin the victor's win on some part of the game's design. Classic example of bad sportsmanship... give Andy his fucking props!

So if we're so below your standard, how come you CANNOT beat us in a tourney? You have NEVER beaten SOCAL in a TOURNEY, although you have tried repeatedly, NEVER!!!

If you win a tourney here tomorrow, it doesn't matter, it will never change the fact that right now, today, YOU, Big Bad Shou, are inferior to US! That's right, time and time again people, it had been clinically proven in Tourneys, that Shou, Mr. "I'm one of the best in the US", is weaker than Socal players. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

can't deny it, always wants to try it /versus/images/graemlins/cool.gif

but, sad part really is this: all this shit really jsut bums me out. I SO don't care about any of this. but I DO care about people insulting and fucking berating my friends, and me.

We practice hard, play when we have time. A big bunch of the Socal guys got their shit together and went to the BT this year, without any red-carpet treatment from any tetsujins, and made the ONLY real All-American team to play in the Beat Tribe Cup. They didn't ask for help in the form of Tetsujin players, and when they lsot, they did it with dignity, they didn't whine like a bunch of cunts. Because they went to see Japan and HAVE FUN! I've also gone to Japan numerous times in VF4's lifespan, and I always try to bring back videos, books, info, techniques etc for everyone. Importing the BT vids is another thing we've done to help people here in NA (where's my $ btw?), so dudes like you can take advantage of that work/hospitality, then talk shit about us behind our backs like we're inferior to you?

I don't care how seriously people want to play, if you want to play hardcore to-win play 100% of the time, GREAT! Knock yourself out, that's what's right for you.

But there's a difference between saying "let's see what you've got fool! bring it on!" with a smile; and whispering behind backs "i'm better than him, and him... you guys can't compare to our scene, you're just 'average' high level, not 'top' high-level like me". There are ways to encourage competition without acting like a prick, provoking people with "I'm better than all of you until you prove it, and even if you beat me, my scene is better than yours, so I'm the best player!"

I'm fucking sick of people who talk about playing for fun, or who don't have the time, $, or inclination to make VF the most important thing in their fucking life being berated by ASSHOLES who really only want to get off on feeling like they're better than other people, and need a Video Game to do it.

I'm not saying I don't want you to come to Socal, or that people here dont like you now, but I'd like an apology. We've worked hard to build our scene, I played VF here ALONE when there was no scene, and I used to contribute a LOT to this site. People here have always welcome you. Some people, like Ice-9, FeixaQ, akapan, Sumeragi, Myke, Dobi & Ticky, and many other guests we've had over the years, know how to accept hospitality graciously. It makes me want to puke that Yusuke went to NY CTF and made a nice post about how much fun he had, only to be berated in an underhanded, cowardly fashion (along with Myke, another NYC guest) in the "Fierce Oppt's" thread.

Eric, do you really want to be this kind of prick asshole like Andy? Have you noticed that REALLY good players by and large DON'T talk any shit about being better than others? Know why? They don't need to.

If you want to remain welcome, you should be a man, and apologize to everyone you've berated, LA or otherwise. If you're not gonna do that, for my part, I'd rather you didn't come here.

Bryan

 

Oh, and BTW

EVERYONE who was at Evo knows that if Chibita refers to a "strong Sarah" player in that was at the Tourney, he's referring to LA's "GoatCheeseBlues" Hat Brian, who also uses Sarah.

It was the Hat who beat Neo-Tower in front of everyone in casual play at the tourney with the "Hei-Hei!" cheers from Ohsu, Chibi, Nuki etc, not you. We have a lot of footage of this, and many other matches where Brian fared VERY well against, ofter beating, the Japanese players. Don't make us use it...

People who agree with me: Everyone who was at Evo /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

People who agree with you: Kyasao, who wasn't at Evo (Chibita told him it was you... what a joke. Eric, he doesn't remember ANY of our names/faces, and if you know anything about Japanese people, you knwo that they'll tell a white lie 5 times to your face before they'll risk being overtly rude, unless you're very close friends). Did you think when you told Kyasao "ask Chibita if he was talking about me blah blah" that he was gonna come back with "I asked him, and he told me he wasn't talking about you, he was talking about the other 20-something black haired average height Asian-American Sarah player at Evo"?

but, like I said, for the real proof, see above /versus/images/graemlins/cool.gif