"Competent" NAVF players

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Shou said:
As for people backing me up, they have privately and all of them don't want to get involved here seeing how some people have overreacted already.

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Dictionary.com says:
overreact: To react with unnecessary or inappropriate force, emotional display, or violence.

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I wouldn't call what I've said or done unnecessary or inappropriate at all. You said you could have IMF or Cappo post to back you up and I asked to see it.

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Shou said:
No, at the time you played Namflow, I wouldn't have called him competent. Maybe now that he has Japanese experience, he is but there are 0 competent home grown Shun users in the West.

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Here, not only are you dissing me, you're also saying that because I went to Japan maybe, just maybe, I've reached the holy level of competency that you and few american players have reached. This is obviously very insulting, more than just the word usage, but the whole mentality of "well, maybe he's better now that he went to Japan" is insulting. I'm certainly not overreacting at all by standing up for myself.

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Shou said:
You can say it's my opinion that your brother did well at VFTG because almost no one knew how to deal with Shun.

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What kind of lame ass excuse is that? I want to post and say, "Man, I didn't need Japanese experience to own you hard at Top Gun. I won cause I WAS BETTER THAN YOU, not cause I was shun. At the time I'd say I had just as much much experience against sarah at the time as you did against shun." But I can't say that because, to be honest, I don't even remember you at all from top gun. Were you even there, did we play eachother?

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Shou said:
Most players at VFTG were whiffing TEs (99% of players still are), most people still can't see stance, the most advanced defensive technique we were doing back then was EDTEG and the fact remains we did not know how to deal with so many situations.

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I totally disagree with your definition of proficient. I whiffed many a throw escape at TG, I didn't do EDTEG. Hell, I don't even know what EMTEG or AMTEI stands for! And I still did well against many of the players at top gun. This ain't Theory Fighter, memorizing situations and frame stats will only take you so far, and certainly isn't the breaking point between those who are competent and those who are not. And besides, I wonder who is more competent, the person trying to learn EDTEG, EMTEG, AMTEI, ARE and all these other fancy acronyms or the person who doesn't need to?

 

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GodEater said:

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I can use the dictionary too.

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maybe you should have in your first post then. Saved yourself all the backpedalling and useless posturing.

but anyway, I think your time would be better served editing or deleting his post. That way you wouldn't have to ignore valid points before attacking his win record against yourself.

GE
<font color="green"> say - is it just my imagination or is it awfully boring in here?</font>

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ZING! Will you be here all week?

 

Alex,

Can you repeat that in the form of a question? I'm sorry if I missed the valid points. Please list them out for me so I can go through them at my leisure.

 

Namflow

You seriously think that since no scene had a dedicated Shun player back then that it wasn't a big factor in your success at VFTG? We'd never seen firsthand what kind of properties Shun's moves had and you do get props for using them to win but please give some credit to all of the other players. The whole point of gatherings is to play against various players and characters and then take your experiences & learn from them. I know when IMF lost to you at TIT, he went back home and studied hardcore on vs Shun tactics. When SHU came, we all received a good lesson in how to fight Shun so nowadays, I can say the understanding of how to fight Shun is much better. It was a similar situation in December when Heruru came. No one was familiar with the Lei Fei situations (such as NH ) he was forcing upon players so he wiped out everyone with ease. Of course, he's a good player but it was extra easy because he got away with so many things which we didn't know about.

BTW, Cappo is staying at my place and he said he'll PM you his thoughts but he won't post in this thread. I mean who would agree with me and put themselves up to all of the flaming that I've taken. It's common sense to not get involved. Reading comprehension is at all time low in this thread.

For all of the unrelated parties posting in this thread, why don't you all put this energy into improving instead of wasting time here? If I go to Evo2K4, I'm willing to play $50 money matches (3/5 m) with any NAVF player so if you win, you can tell me to FUCK OFF in person and you get money out of it. This offer excludes Shang because he never paid up. /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

Well, I'd have to say that Namflow record against players like Ryan and Kazu was far better than most players at Top Gun, including you Shou. Considering that Ryan and Kaz likely were very much experienced against Shun players - both having the required exposure in Japan - I think that Namflow's character advantage was minimal.

Besides, you don't think that much of your own success can be based on character advantage? Who else plays Sarah?

Pot. Kettle. Black.

I wouldn't mind if this thread went on to discuss these so-called more advanced techniques. I'd love to know how delayed launchers suddenly became so advanced. People have been using delayed *anything* to beat ETEG players since frickin VF3. This isn't something new, nor is it advanced. It's smart, sure - that's the beauty of yomi in VF - but it certainly is not a technique for the elite. That just makes me laugh.

In Toronto, Robertson won the first 2 VF4 version B tournaments with extremely well time - and, ooh, delayed - shoulder rams to crush people's throw escaping, etc. That was almost 2 years ago. That was just Robbie's superb yomi, not some advanced technique waiting to happen.

<font color="yellow">.cheers.</font>

 

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Shou said:

Alex,

Can you repeat that in the form of a question? I'm sorry if I missed the valid points. Please list them out for me so I can go through them at my leisure.

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Reading comprehension is at all time low in this thread.

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Nah it isn't worth it... I love debates, but because of you this has degraded from a debate or "serious discussion" (as you put it) to something far from it... I could go on and restate my arguments but it isn't like you'd have any way to respond to them so you would just think you are all smart and reply with something like "the sky is blue! Take that SuperG! /versus/images/graemlins/blush.gif"... What is the point? Incase you havn't noticed, [Gx2] is owning you in this thread - and even if you think they are clever, your non-responses arn't helping you any...

-Alex

 

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Llanfair said:

Well, I'd have to say that Namflow record against players like Ryan and Kazu was far better than most players at Top Gun, including you Shou. Considering that Ryan and Kaz likely were very much experienced against Shun players - both having the required exposure in Japan - I think that Namflow's character advantage was minimal.

Besides, you don't think that much of your own success can be based on character advantage? Who else plays Sarah?

Pot. Kettle. Black.

I wouldn't mind if this thread went on to discuss these so-called more advanced techniques. I'd love to know how delayed launchers suddenly became so advanced. People have been using delayed *anything* to beat ETEG players since frickin VF3. This isn't something new, nor is it advanced. It's smart, sure - that's the beauty of yomi in VF - but it certainly is not a technique for the elite. That just makes me laugh.

In Toronto, Robertson won the first 2 VF4 version B tournaments with extremely well time - and, ooh, delayed - shoulder rams to crush people's throw escaping, etc. That was almost 2 years ago. That was just Robbie's superb yomi, not some advanced technique waiting to happen.

<font color="yellow">.cheers.</font>

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Owen

Do you have the #s? I never saw a high win rate against either person. In fact, the first person to crack Ryan, was Jerky and that was after hundreds of matches. I agree with your point about me playing Sarah. Most people don't have experience playing against her and I get away with a lot. What does that say about NAVF proficiency then?

You're correct in saying that delayed launcher is an old VF3 technique, so it's quite funny to me to see the vets taking so long to consciously apply this to their games. Knowing what your opponent is doing and how to apply the best counterattack in the system's constraints is exactly what I was talking about. Your example is proving my point. If you're taking shoulder ram due to TE input then you whiffed the TE(s) aka mashing TEs.

 

supergolden

Oh nooooooooooooz, you 2 owned me by proving my points!

The sky is blue. Take that!

 

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Shou said:

supergolden

Oh nooooooooooooz, you 2 owned me by proving my points!

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No you are owning yourself by not even trying to form an argument against my points! You got it mixed up, but like you said reading comprehension is at an all time low in this thread /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

-Alex

 

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supergolden said:
You got it mixed up, but like you said reading comprehension is at an all time low in this thread /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif
-Alex

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Nice, we agree, case closed! /versus/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

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If you're taking shoulder ram due to TE input then you whiffed the TE(s) aka mashing TEs.

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Shou, c'mon, give people with precise input some credit. Like the use of the "competent", I think your choice of words with "mashing" is also on the sensitive side. Personally, and I'm not bragging here, but I have far greater than average command input - just good dexterity. However, when I DTEG, and my opponent out yomis me by delaying their attack, surely I have not 'mashed' my TEs. I've been yomi'ed. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif I don't think I've mashed a throw escape since trying to consistently beat the 4 throw escape challenge mode on the PS2. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Now, there are two routes to take after being beat this way. The first is to continue with the option select - ie: immediately following my DTEG I should input more defensive techniques to counter the upcoming shoulder. Or, knowing that my opponent will delay the shoulder, I should skip the TEs altogether, yomi *him*, and attack to interrupt the shoulder. Personally, I prefer option 2. I'd rather adapt my game to my opponent's behaviour, than implement further and further option selects. But that's me, and that's how I like to play the game. I get far more enjoyment out of adapting appropriately than I do out of being able to do more option select to keep me safe in theory. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

With regards to delayed launchers, I think a lot of people have been using this, but perhaps there hasn't been dedicated discussion around the option. I think the closest this board has had to discussions of gameplay options was Blonde_One's thread about what to do in certain situations from a while back. If I went and dug it up, I think you'd find that much of the discussion was very numbers based, very theory oriented, and very much geared towards maximizing the option select. However, when discussing a single circumstance, this is fine. I think that when you start to go beyond a single circumstance or repeated behaviour in a match, the discussion can shift towards more actions involving yomi. I think that delayed launchers fall into the yomi category - as does reverse nitaku - and so on.

Perhaps we should move this discussion to a more appropriate thread? One with a title that could attract more discussion around applying yomi to defeat the theory game? /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

<font color="yellow">.cheers.</font>

 

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Myke said:



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Damn I'd thought you were beauty before Myke but this photo left gagging. /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

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Myke said:








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/me dies of laughter.