Confessions of a Scrubby Lion or "why can't I hold all these 2KK's"

Alrighty after finally breaking Defender (51% win ratio of that matters) which I was really sorta proud of, and then getting knocked right down back to barbarian but quick, I've been attempting to actually step up my game. Sadly I don't have a FGC in the area where I live outside of some close friends of whom only one really works at the game. So after trying to incorporate some moves like 3K and pp4p into my game I've been noticing how much I rely on some of the scrubbier tactics that Lion has like 2KK and his Tourou Teihozen (4P+K+G) mixups. I'm bad about resorting to those moves even though I know I'm screwed if they are blocked. Also I play a very linear lion and I don't really use the space like I should.

tl:dr= I'm a scrub, don't wanna be a scrub, call the waaaambulance

so I wanted to mainly ask a couple quick things

2K,K: when is this actually useful and what are better alternative moves that I could start using when I would be spamming this little baby

44K: this seems to be a really situation move but its basically how all of his combos start so are their any other
good combo starters, something I didn't mention was that while I know alot of good combos I either rely on a 9P overhead to hit after pp4p or the 44K which I'm admittedly not the best at using, so if you guys have anything to say to that issue than please help me out

what is the best way to effectively and safely get in on a far away opponent with lion? I normally use 9/3P+K+G, PPP but are their any others you suggest since Lion doesn't have a running move like Jacky.

Also another thing that's more general that I may as well throw in here is what do you think the best options Lion has for wake-up I normally use a low kick but that one is only OK

btw I debated making this a topic or posting it in the main lion discussion thread but I thought since I see these problem in alot of lions around and below my skill level so maybe this could help, if not I'm sorry for misplacing it.

 

***UPDATE (2/2014): 2KK is guaranteed on mC as well as MC! This extends its utility when punishing strings with high attacks INCLUDING special high attacks, because you will usually mC the opponent in this situation. 2K, K+G only works on MC, not mC. mC = hit opponent during recovery frames. MC = hit opponent during execution frames or overpowering them during hit frames. /UPDATE***

Personally, I'm glad you started this thread! It's always good to have honest discussions like this ^_^

I am a bit in the middle of something so I'm going to just touch on a couple of points, but actually there are many points to address and expand upon here (and I think that's a good thing!).

One very general tip is, if you're not using the very basic pokes much (high punch, low punch, elbow, and throws too), then work on improving your use of them. You didn't mention them at all but maybe that's because you are using them or have even mastered them ^_^

2KK - Not that good, not that bad, great when specifically used properly.
IMO, 2K tends to be overestimated by newer players and maybe underestimated (in FS) by older players. It is narrower in application than most newer players think and it is important to understand this.

At low level play, you are abusing an opponent's habit of not blocking low. But this can only take you so far....

The flaw with using 2KK is that the second hit is ONLY GUARANTEED if you get a yellow flash (Major Counter) when you hit with 2K. When you fight better players, they will almost always block the second K, lag permitting.

On top of this, 2K, K+G is actually a better move, but it loses to the same thing. If I am your opponent and I block or get normal hit by 2K, then I will block low right away because I will block 2KK and have a guaranteed combo on you, or I will duck K+G and still have a combo on you.

All this being said, if you watch my matches, I overuse 2K, K+G. I shouldn't, but I can tell you the good things about the move but again, you should not overuse this move--I still have to use it less than I do.

What makes 2K,K+G good... 2K beats special high attacks. This is the narrow window when you should do 2K--when your opponent will almost certainly do a high or even special high attack. 2K is the one low attack in the whole game that does not lose to special high attacks (the game calls special high, "Ex High"). When 2K hits on Major Counter (you get a yellow flash), then K+G followup is guaranteed (so is the K followup).

If your opponent was standing and was in front of you when you did 2K (MC), K+G, then you get a free combo. The simplest universal followup is 6PP. In some (many) situations, you can do 6_P(G) --> 43P+K --> 6PP. You'll have to watch how high the opponent floats. This gets messed up a bit by opponent being side-turned against some characters (Lau is one) or crouching when you hit them with 2K, K+G.

I REPEAT, 2K is a very narrow move. Its application is narrow, and I don't think you should spam it. But it has key moments of great usage. And again, if you watch me fight, I overuse it and I should fix that.

44K is really good
Okay, so with time being cut short, maybe I'll expand on this later but...

44K is really good. It's a combo launcher that works against standing opponents in guaranteed situations (technically -15, but really think of it as -16 or -17--not easy to use this when opponent is -15).

IMO, its best role is a whiff punisher combo launcher. Paired with the current backdash, it is great. With the backdash motion of 44, you've already pre-buffered 44K. If you see your opponent about to whiff, hit K and you should nail them.

There is definite risk with using the backdash this way however. You need to watch out for opponents that will punish your backdash and you do not want to bait Taka with backdashes in general.

If your opponent hits you out of backdash once, maybe they got lucky. If they nail you this way twice, be on your guard about using backdash.

Anyways... these are just some thoughts, there's so much more one can get into and I'm sure you'll get some more responses to this ^_^

Again, thanks for opening up and freely speaking about your game and the want to improve ^_^

 

Thank you so much for the very detailed response as always chanchai. Gotta say your one of my favorite people right now haha. Honestly I'm already super excited to use some of this stuff especially since checking out the combos you can get off of 2P, K+G. Now that I'm at university I don't have the best connection so I dunno if I'll be able to play much especially since I have to recoup a couple ranks now to get back to where I want to be for right now.

Sadly I have no FGC in my area so online is the only thing I have to use but especially the backdash deal with 44K will help alot once I figure it out. Movement needs to be the next thing I work on after this but this is going to help so much.

I know my basic pokes and such of course and it seems that 3K is one that not many seem to expect so I use that as well as a mid range poke (dunno if thats the best idea but yea)

I may edit this post with more questions later but I needed to thank you for such a detailed response, as always I'm wowed by how good this community is for VF and I can't say enough about it.

now back to hopefully get my damnded defender rank back

 

Hi Droogy, well there's definitely lots more to talk. But remember how strong the basics are.

And I'm flattered by you calling me out, but I will be honest, I'm not a great player--I just post a lot

About 2K, K+G just remember this important thing: It's not great, but it's also not bad. I really mean this. I do overuse it way too much and using it in a tournament can lose you the match if you are not using it specifically when you read a high attack. My bad habit is I'm using it when I'm guessing they are doing a high. Lion players (including myself) should really train themselves to use this move when they are READING a high attack. Guessing and reading are two totally different things. When you do this move, you should know it's going to hit, you should not hope it hits ^_^ If you can do that, it' becomes a good move! If you do what I do in casuals and even training, and just use it because you're guessing it'll hit, it can become a very bad move because they only need to block low after the first move and then Lion is screwed ^_^

But it's easier to read/predict special high attacks than even basic highs ^_^ And the fact that this is the only low that I know of that beats special high, it has been given a very special purpose.

Another note about 2K,K+G: If your opponent evades the low kick they can still duck or block or anything after that, the K+G full circular is too slow to hit them. It is not Vanilla Brad's PK (which guaranteed a hit if opponent evaded the P). Just thought I'd add that as a bonus detail. So if your opponent blocks or evades your 2K (and if you whiff it)--Lion is, or should be, screwed.

On Ranged Fighting
Despite how I've played publicly, when fighting long range it's best to be careful always. Try to let your opponent make the first mistake and then punish it. Lion has long range moves, but it's better to use these when the opponent has over-reached as opposed to trying to just counter hit them. Again, I'm being hypocritical here, because I like going after Major Counter (MC), but really, you should be defending as you approach and using Lion's long range attacks to punish, as opposed to tag. 3K+G is good, when it's used to hit something that cannot stop it. Online 3K+G and 6K+G might work for free sometimes, but offline, people will usually block these on reaction if they have Lion experience. Learn how to block while moving forward. Also know that the long-range game, while not based on pre-buffered responses, is a readable situation--people have tendencies, figure out what your opponent is looking for when fighting longrange. Are they greedy? Are they just waiting for you to make a mistake? You can feint mistakes in this game with K(G) or a very fast poke.

Lion also has awkward ranges, learn how to tempt opponents by standing at these awkward ranges where they'll whiff but Lion will probably hit. This takes time and practice but it's part of Lion's game.

We will go into detail more later, I am sure, and someone will probably explain it better than me for sure too. But remember to learn to play the long range game with patience. Because playing it wrong can cost you half your life--seriously.

But also, for the record, another poke of Lion's that I think is good to learn how to use, but is another "it's good, not great, not bad" move is 4P. It's really designed to just disrupt an opponent's high attack flow, but if you're playing your poke mindgames, this move can do well. It can also be useful with the long-range approach game as it's fast enough (though not too fast) to deal with some popular responses and again, it slides under high attacks. Again, good. Not great. Not bad.

There are more topics to talk about so I hope others also chime in and add to the conversation! Talking about the wrong things is just as important as talking about the right things. It's intuitive to talk about the correctness of combos and guaranteed damage. But knowing when something won't or should not work is so valuable and I think it helps discussions. Partly why i don't mind being wrong at times, if someone points out the fallacy, at least there's a public record that went into more detail about the move and more people learned.

Speaking of fallacies, I think I wrote a very wrong thing with 2K,K+G... I don't think you can do P(G), 43P+K at any time on this, I'm pretty sure of that... somehow it popped in my mind but I must have been thinking of 1K (MC) in the back of my mind here.

Anyways, my thoughts for today:

• Just because I post a lot and write friendly stuff doesn't make me a great player (I'm just glad I don't think I'm a bad player lol)
• For all I've said about 2K, K+G, just remember that it's good when used properly. Not great, not bad (unless you misuse it). Use it properly.
• Play cautiously (this doesn't mean passively) at long range, Lion's good at it.
• With long range, better to punish with them than to throw them out on a guess.
• Use Lion's awkward ranges.
• 4P is worth trying out, but it's another good, not great, not bad move.
• I'm pretty sure I made an error about 2K, K+G. feel free to test.

Cheers and thanks to you too for opening up about your thoughts and game!

 

Seconded that 44K is really good. It's guarenteed after Lions TRSF P+K guard break and after a 3P+K counter hit (hard to do). And also, thinking about it it should be guaranteed after 3P+K sidehit seeing as sidehit give you an extra +3 frames.

Moves have startup frames then active frames then recovery frames. If you evade a move then you can look at how many recovery frames it has in the command lists, but in general, 44K works in a lot of situations after an evade. As long as you're quick with it. Keep in mind though the float is usually slightly altered from a sidehit and you may have to do different combos. From sidehit 44K>P>6PP should work on everyone. But you can probably get the 43P+K to reliably work in these combos from middle weight down.

 

3P+K (sidehit) does indeed guarantee 44K combo and I love it ^_^

It's good to practice this imo because it's not too hard to do and it's nice to land on a standing opponent when you've got a guaranteed attack after evading them.

Also fun to practice 336P+K from evade-buffering!

 

I loves to use this as I'm sure anyone whos played against me will know. Max damage FTW!

336P+K will side crumple on minor counter, so against any move that has more than 16 recovery frames (and you hit them from the side), it will side crumple and you get 90+ damage provided you land the combo. It's not what I would call a beginners technique. You are at someone's side after a successful evade.

A minor counter happens when you hit someone during their recovery frames.

 

I was wondering if I could get some help for some stuff that I haven't figured out yet, and I figured the "Scrubby Lion" thread would be the place to ask.

For background, I have a lot of experience playing VF, and Lion specifically, but I never really explored the depth of the jump from 4evo to 5, and so I'm extra lost on some stuff in FS. I apologize if some of this stuff has been answered elsewhere, I'm just having a hard time grasping some combo points. If somebody could help me that would be wonderful!

1. I recognize the B+Bness of 44K~P+K, but what are the most common/safest times to be using it? More often than not I'm trying to hit it naked just because I know it's good, and not because it's a part of my game, and so even when it lands I just wind up dropping the combo.
2. Same goes for 6P+K+G~P+K. I'm guessing I need to be making use of the moves that actually flow into Tourou Soufu, because when I try to use it raw, I get stuffed a lot. But then the command isn't actually 6P+K+G, so what are the situations that I should be recognizing as the right times to use this move that I keep hearing so much about? And I guess you could call it 2b, but why and when should I be thinking about stance changes for Lion? Like I said, as a primarily 4evo player, I'm always thinking about them, but always unsure as to the right times to break them out.
3. In a lot of combos I see 6PP after 43P+K. For the life of me I can't get/don't know how to make this connect. Is it very character specific? Because I've tried it between Jacky all the way down to Eileen and I'm just not grasping the timing on this. Or are there other conditions that need to be met like CH?

I'm sure there's a lot more I need to ask, but these are the things that have been bugging me the most right now. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

Well, I'll give you my take, which is much more preference than factual and sometimes even whimsical. But I am glad you asked, I think discussion is always good ^_^

1. 44K, P+K: For me, there are three "safest" times to use 44K and I will list them in terms of "ease of application" though even this varies from person to person (because most people in North America, including yours truly, are bad at guaranteed damage even when it's supposed to be one of the first basics). I will avoid talking about 44K as it was used in VF5 Vanilla because much of that is no longer relevant, but 44K remains a good move in Lion's arsenal.
   1. The first safe situation to use 44K is when it is guaranteed on block, when the opponent is standing and is at a horrible frame disadvantage.
      1. 44K is a 15 frame attack, but because of the way it is inputted and how little time you sometimes have to punish an opponent at horrible frame disadvantage, many of us tend to think of 44K as a -16 or sometimes even -17 guaranteed damage punisher.
      2. For you to nail an opponent at -15 frame disadvantage, you usually need to be pre-buffering the input during the opponent's attack, while you are holding Guard.
      3. That said, this "should be" the easiest safe time to use the move.
   2. The second situation where 44K is safe is when whiff-punishing a standing opponent.This is probably #1 for me to be honest, since I need to improve my guaranteed damage. Oddly enough, the application is more or less the same.
      1. If you're at roughly elbow range from an opponent (or at least from a part of his hitbox) 44K is a good whiff punisher against an opponent that is standing.
      2. Using Backdash to bait is the risk/reward way of applying this--the 44K is your nice reward, getting butt-staggered and potentially combo'd is your risk. Backdash is pretty effective against pokes up to elbow range in Final Showdown. Because of this, you can often backdash and cause an opponent to whiff something like an elbow and quickly punish with 44K by pressing 4K (your backdash pre-buffered the 44 input). This is often rewarding, but if you are predictable, you are at great risk of severe punishment whether it's Taka's standing K (which can lead to a 60% damage combo in this situation), Akira's Super Dashing Elbow (which can lead to a huge combo also), etc.... Again, using backdash this way is effective, but it's clearly a higher risk vs. reward play.
   3. The third "safe" time to use 44K is to pre-buffer it into certain combos.
      1. By this, I am specifically referring to either Major Counter or Side-hitting with 3P+K and then buffering 44 almost right away and pressing K when you know 3P+K will either Counter-Hit or Side-Hit.
      2. This can lead to some excellent damage.
      3. This is easier said than done. Evading a many active frames single attack is probably the easiest way to do this. But in that situation, 336P+K (though much harder to do) is often your better option here.
      4. When the opponent is front-facing you, this only works on Major Counter. Because of that, most people just do the always guaranteed when 3P+K hits, PK. PK is guaranteed on 3P+K Normal Hit.
2. Guard Break:This one is tricky because opponents can usually hit you out of the stance transition. Because of this, the most common way to use this move is on okizeme pressure, though it is not always the best option.
   1. Using Lion's 6P+K+G is probably easiest to use against opponents who tech roll or quick rise when knocked down. Against decent opponents you usually need to discourage them from using an evade option select in this situation. Even using this stance in okizeme situations takes quite a bit of experience and sense (or your opponent's lack of sense or experience lol).
   2. To use 6P+K+G properly outside of okizeme, you usually need to be applying sufficient pressure to your opponent already, particularly making them fearful of your mid attack options or when you've created proper spacing or advantage. This is also easier said than done. I've found that using it after things like 4PP is not good though, people just naturally attack Lion when he shifts stance from 4PP because 4PP visually looks disadvantageous for Lion no matter how it hits, so people naturally attack after 4PP. Because of this, depending on how fast or slow your opponent is, I've found 4PP, P+K+G P to be a good option on occasion.
3. 43P+K --> 6PP as combo finisher:This depends on how heavy your opponent is and their hit box. You generally need to launch your opponent in the air (for example, MC your opponent with 33P aka 2_3P) and then usually you need to hit with a poke like 6_P(G), and then you can do the finisher. I'm giving you a non-max damage combo and it depends on the character you are fighting: 33P (MC) --> 6_P(G) --> 43P+K --> 6PP.
   1. Again, this depends on the opponent you are fighting. I do not even think of weight-classes in Final Showdown anymore because the combo set you use against each character is generally different by a hit or two because of the differences in hit boxes. Akira and Lau are two very different characters with different combos that work on them, for example. The only characters that seem to be consistent are Jeffry and Wolf, usually if one combo works against one, it will work on the other. But outside of these two, there are generally different combos you use against different characters.

Hope this helps! Just wrote this stuff off the top of my head while being very tired. I tend to be detailed in my explanations so I apologize if it was confusing. If I'm wrong anywhere, I also apologize.
Good luck and happy VFing!

 

Not going to lie, Chanchai, I love reading your responses. Maybe it's because I'm a little long-winded myself, but everything you say always makes a lot of sense and has a lot of data to back it up. Many thanks!

Everything you've said about 44K makes a lot of sense, 6 P+K+G too. The only question I have left over is from your notation for using 43P+K --> 6PP as a combo finisher. I've FINALLY gotten it to hit after taking your explanation literally - That is, I can launch, do A poke, in the test case neutral P, then my 43P+K bounds up. So then I realized that I was doing 6P, not 6_P, so I used your notation: and that bounded up. The similarity I seem to be finding is that float height is the determining factor behind 43P+K's bound properties. If how we generally perceive the opponent's hurt box(lead foot, torso) falls below Lion's waist, it seems like it doesn't bound. I'm generalizing here, but is that more or less true? Obviously this allows for some deviance and not being frame perfect (thank god) in order to get the splash up and connect the 6PP.

So then why the 6? Can 6P combo and the timing is just super strict? Does the 6_P give Lion an extra step forward that helps with connecting this on trickier hitboxes?

Again, thanks for the quick response. You may not be a definitive source, but it's nice to hear why each of us do the things we do with Lion(For example, I try to use 7K as a match starter at least twice per game for its far hitting properties and relatively safe movement), as frames are a science but match data certainly isn't. And even if you're not the best Lion player (I haven't played you yet, so I have no opinion), you always have a pleasant demeanor and a good knowledge of the character and are strong at explaining the details, and to me that puts you well in the running for best Lion forum user! Questions will no doubt continue from me as the grind progresses!

 

You pretty much nailed it ^_^ The height of the hitbox is what determines when this works as a combo finisher.

Why 6_P(G)... it's a habit. The reason it's a habit is because yes, this extends your hit box forward and accounts for spacing issues in some combos. In my experience, I have seen P(G) fail where 6_P(G) does not, but never the opposite. In fact, I'm telling local players that when they punish with PK, they should be doing 6_PK to make sure. Granted, the hypocrisy is that I'm lousy at guaranteed damage.... but this is true, a great Lion example is block Lion's 6K+G and try to punish him. Much of the time PK will probably whiff, but 6_PK should connect.

I like creative plays, 7K is interesting, you must be fighting really aggressive opponents hehe. Speaking of hopping stuff... While it's risky (a single high punch will become a combo launcher), hop forward kick is fun as something that hits a crouching punch and nails someone trying to evade (since they get a failed evade from your hop before you kick). That said, I mostly use that to troll than anything else, I think I'm too afraid to use it in a tournament match where 8K works just nice if I have a serious read on a low attack (but 46K+G is also fun if you have the startup time lol).

Update: Thanks for the kind words about my posts, really flattered and appreciate it ^_^ I try my best hehe

 

Interesting. I'll have to work on making that a habit for myself too, too often when I try it I get 6P instead, I'll have to get used to holding it when I know I've got some frames to burn.

As for the 7K thing, it's certainly not a GREAT way to start, and yeah it's mostly to troll aggressive players, but the logic behind my choice is this:

• It punishes most high/mid opening strings that push the opponent between a range of roughly one step to just outside of Super Dashing Elbow range. Basically if your opponent commits to being the aggressor and isn't careful with move selection, they'll get kicked in the neck. If your opponent backdashes or uses a standing or low move, you'll be able to land safely and work your way in with 3K or other longer pokes like normal.
• The backwards float it creates is slower than a back dash, but moves you back just as far, making this an option equivalent to the popular opening back dash in terms of spacing, but adds an element of keep away in case your opponent is intent on moving in.
• I've certainly eaten my share of moves that beat out 7K, but that usually sends me flying back even farther, and I have yet to see any kind of follow-up. The fall is easily teched and creates a neutral situation where I'm out maybe 30 health at most.The biggest issue really is proximity to ring's edge/wall it creates, so I don't recommend this tactic on 10x10 stages(where, let's be honest, you should be going for the 5-second ring out anyways as a Lion player), but 3P+K+G is a good way to get oriented correctly in terms of center stage and even allows for some mixup afterwards if you catch someone pushing for splat or ring out.
• Here's where the troll science comes in - It's an obnoxiously LONG move and looks easy to beat. If you do it more than once to open a round, most opponents think that it's your starting backdash substitute, and you can change gears and beat out their chase option with a simple 11 frame PPP string or (and this is me learning from you guys here) actually start with an opening back dash, and since you've buffered in your 44 already, give them another 4K and get your BnB on. Once you've established a solid 50-50 opener between flying backwards or charging in quickly, whether it's in Round 3, 4, or 5 that this lesson sticks with your opponent, it forces them to play extremely defensive at round's beginning, and this gives you a chance to be creative - open with a sweep, dash up throw, or feint a K(G) and go for a counter hit. The trick is to show them how Lion can and will beat them at the starting bell, even if we all know he's not really at an advantage.

So is 7K a good way to start the match? Heavens no. You're not really going to get anything off of it, and it's crazy exploitable once your opponent figures out what they can do to stop it. If it gets stuffed, put it away and leave it there unless you're willing to gamble. But it does have utility. I think one of the biggest weak points Lion players as a whole have is that we get pretty predictable in a lot of situations, myself included. I usually try and get a CH FC_3P after 2 2Ps, whether hit or blocked. If I stagger my timing enough, the payoff is usually there and I can get a big combo going. Thing is, it doesn't take long for people to wait out the two jabs and keep guarding to block the launcher. When I took this into account and started tacking on a 2KK after my 2 2Ps(to bring the thread full circle) people were eating them like crazy and better yet, were too confused to tech, giving me even more damage off of 3P or if I was feeling extra ballsy, 8P. You can certainly play a flowchart Lion to great effect and I'm sure at some point we've all gone into autopilot and done just that. But Lion's mixup game, while maybe not as good as say, Lau's, is there and is strong. It just takes a different approach and a lot more reading, opponent-training, and some trial-and-error that will wind up causing you to eat some damage in the process.
Anyways, that's my opinion, and I would certainly love to keep the ideas coming.

 

One note/thought to add, and this is kind of relevant to the inquiry about 6P+K+G, P+K...

At higher levels of play, some defensive techniques might be seen more than others. Different attack options and lines of play open up when this happens. I don't encounter too much of this in my local offline scene so my exposure to this is often theoretical, in dojo, or when I travel (and sometimes it's in my local scene and sometimes in online but that's a different metagame altogether).

Again though, different lines of attack open up at different levels of play. Option selects tend to use up additional frames for added defense, but sometimes that can give you an opening to use something like 6P+K+G and other options. Often times the best thing to do is to directly attack the option select, because none of them are full proof. It's exciting when you get to this level of play, btw--VF just takes on a new character.

However, you also have to keep note that people who are trained to use option selects in their game, also get trained to watch what they do after the option select. The defensive option selects, especially fuzzy guard, have a bonus net effect of being like a Split-Step in Tennis or a Triple-Threat-Stance in Basketball--the person doing it has kind of a moment of security while doing it that affords them that small moment to assess the situation and respond properly. The point being, the person doing option select, should be seeing your 6P+K+G stance come up--and should be preparing for what option they think you are going for. It's up to you to still mixup your options from stance and act accordingly. Just remember the guard-break can be ducked and can be evaded, so you want to discourage any of those from happening.

Another place to sneak in the 6P+K+G stance is when someone has whiffed, but it goes back to the eternal question you have to ask yourself in VF: "Do I want the guaranteed damage (and against a whiff that can be a lot of damage for Lion to be honest)? Or do I want to have added potential?" And so the problem with 6P+K+G in this situation is exposed a bit... because we've already said 44K is a good whiff punisher, so if 44K combo is your target, 6P+K+G into Guard Break is a less effective way to do it here unless you were too far to land 44K. And then the purpose of 6P+K+G has to be re-examined. I will say for long range whiff punishing, depends on what opponent whiffed, reckless opponents might leave themselves open to 66P btw (an amazing move for Lion imo because it has such great potential damage, but you really need to get a good sense of when to use this move and definitely when not to hehe).

For me, it's fun asking these questions and working out the answers ^_^ One thing I like a lot about VF is that while there are a lot of concrete things, this game is a great place to ask situational questions. Maybe we'll start a series on the Dojo, I've already started one in my region's facebook group and it was inspired actually, by Florida player Blondie (who posted an interesting series in another group) ^_^

Tip: My pal AJS might be posting a sort of exercise activity soon that is similar to "VF Brain Teasers."

 

I really like your explanation of 7K and I don't discount it as a valid opening option to be honest. I've actually used it myself a few times lol. Depends on what the opponent was doing ^_^

Heck, against my Lion, and I have not tested this... it might work against me in later rounds where my assessment of the opponent might lead me to going for 3K+G against them because of excessive backdash evade balanced with excessive high attack usage at the opening. You could lead me into wanting to do 3K+G and (again not tested) 7K will probably beat that.

I think Lion is incredibly fun to play with a lot of utility and I really like that you are challenging yourself to open up more options when you play Lion!

I think Lion players should do that, he has interesting utilities.

I agree, keep the ideas coming ^_^

 

Did you know that 1K also avoids special highs?

As seen here.

In case you might wonder about the input timing in the quick neutral situation, you can see Brad's leg retracting before he gets hit by Lion's attack, which means the attack was successfully avoided.

 

Yeah, that shit is

 

2 , combos on CH. And you can get from 73 on Heavy Class to 94 on Blaze with the ensuing combo from it.

 

Are you saying that if you interrupt a special highs start up frames then you get a minor counter?

combos on major.