Converting to Vanessa from Aoi, help needed!

Hey, I'm new here, so I hope I this is where to go. I've read a few threads and you guys seem very experienced, so I decided to join. Long story short, I'm converting to Vanessa, and have absolutely no idea what the hell I'm doing with her as of now. I plan on spending a few hours in Dojo mode tonight finding strats on my own, but any of your input is appreciated. Keep in mind I started with VF4, didn't play EVO, and just bought VF5 after not playing VF4 for 2 years, so treat me like I totally suck, because I probably do.

 

Well, then you're basically starting over then /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Key tools are 3K and 66K in DS. Also Intruder Hook (Hold G, 2P)is still very good, and the follow up is more damaging than before.

OS has so many moves that it's hard to pick just one. Her new strings out of 3K are excellent though.

Throwing is very important for Vanessa, so polish those throws.

Let me know if you need help with any specific combos or situations.

 

Hey, KTall. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Anyone know Nessa counters for -12 to -15 that do good damage and aren't throws?

I heard she is totally different in this game so I don't know if the old combo starts still apply. :X

 

According to Black Book:

DS:
+9 : /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif (Hits high so only hit moves that recover standing)
+12 : /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gifp: (Hits high so only hit moves that recover standing)
+13 : While rising /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif
+15 : /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif
+16 : /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif
+17 : /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif (Hits high so only hit moves that recover standing)
+17 : /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif
+20 : Hold /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif


OS
+11 : /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif (Hits high so only hit moves that recover standing)
+14 : /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif (Hits high so only hit moves that recover standing)
+14 /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif (Hits high so only hit moves that recover standing)
+14 /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif
+14 /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif
+16 /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif
+17 /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif
+19 /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif (I think they mention it may miss on low recovering moves, stance ?, poor low hit detection ?)
+20 /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif


I think it's also good to mention that in DS she has thoses throws ending in /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif direction that are rarely escaped

 

What are the fundamental differences between her Offensive and Defensive stance? More specifically, what are the fundamental advantages/disadvantages of each stance.

 

Thanks for all of the input so far. I'm only having major issues with going from <-- <-- K+G and then G while charging. How do you use those pretty move indicators and arrows and such?

 

Overall DS is slower (12f standing punch make it hard to poke with it, no 14f mid) and has weaker strings compared to OS.
On the other hand it has better throws (damage and directions), many sabakis + neutral hold, that can be very helpul to stop opponent's flowcharts. She also has that unique 9f punch (no range but VERY fast interupting tool) and a very versatile 66+K (fast safe full circular, one of the best move in the game IMO).

Os is more rushing oriented, in this stance she has a decent 11f stand P, 14f elbow and more string/combo potential. On the other hand her throw game is weaker and she doesn't have any particular sabakis or defensive tool. OS moves are also more linear than DS ones so you may have trouble if your opponent know when to escape.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for all of the input so far. I'm only having major issues with going from <-- <-- K+G and then G while charging. How do you use those pretty move indicators and arrows and such? </div></div>

When writing a message click on the smile emoticon you'lle see the list of icons, they're usually like "" for /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif etc

 

Thanks for the break down FA. Do people tend to just stick with the Defensive stance? I see that kick you are talking about used a lot by Vanessa players, and don't notice any explicit stance changes, unless moves lead into/out of the stance.

 

A lot of players seem to stick with defensive judging from the movies on the internet. This was true in VF4 as well, which is why in VF5 Vane's OS moves have been drastically refurbished.

One of the better (best) Vane players out there is called Morimoto, he uses an OS based Vane, but is known to switch up once the opponent catches on. Which is of course the biggest advantage Vane has over others, she can play two drastically different games.

There are a load of stance switching moves, check the move list: http://virtuafighter.com/commands/index.php?chara=vanessa&ver=5b. All the strings ending with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif,/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif(charge)/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif switch stance. You can mix up a lot of semi-circulars left and right through varying use of these strings with foot stance switchers, you can see this being used quite a bit in vids.

aside:
Where are you Zero? Vane discussion going on here.

 

i tend to use both stances but OS definately has the advantage when it comes to dealing damaging and pressuring the opponent, plus i love her 6+p and her switch moves, especially into DS are great as there +1 even on guard if im remember correctly in FT.I use DS if im playing cautously or am low on health. Have not played VF5 van so dunno what the new moves are like

 

In VF4 Evo/FT Vanessa players used DS a lot more than OS because it was better IMO. FT introduced some new move to switch between stances that could be used in combos (they're often canned string enders). I didn't search for combo damage but I guess it was designed so that some of the most damaging combos included those moves at the end, hence forcing you to switch.

Now in 5 I think it's more balanced because OS seems a lot better so it's more like 50/50. It also depends on your opponent Character. Personnaly I'll tend to stay in DS against characters who use a lot of elbow type moves so I can make use of her sabakis for example.

Black book has a board where they give advice about which stanc should be used against each character, unfortunately as I can't understand the explanations it would be useless to post it.

 

Little late response.

OS definitely rewards a more aggressive playstyle. However DS can really get you out of trouble with 1P. I swear, that move beats so many attacks.

Good players will switch between the stances constantly and try to confuse the opponent.

 

Thanks for all of the help, it's coming along nicely. I'll let you know my general strats soon, would like advice to see if they're good.

 

Hmm to my knowledge OS was much more heavily used in FT/Evo. In fact I was so suprised to see DS so beefed up for vf5.

 

Are there any YouTube collections of this Morimoto? Or any YouTube subscriptions to quality Vane players? I would love to watch her used in the hands of a high level player.

 

This link has already been given in the VF5 Vanessa Thread it features a good Vanessa

http://www.youtube.com/user/acebreaker

BTW I don't think OS was more used in Evo/FT, VF5 OS Vanessa is really better than before imo.