Counters/Reversals with Vanessa

IMO the problem lies around the fact that I play against Auvii so much i know what he does and all his tendencies to the point where I counter them without even thinking, there are times I counter on reflex and it works when I play him. I try it online and get worked. Also I did not spend a lot of time on VF4 Evo. I basically started on VF5, so a lot of the basics I still have not grasped. Side stepping and advantage/disadvantage, and most of all throw escapes (if I ever get on a roll vs Auvii, all he does is throw me and I lose the round).

 

i know what you mean, i do the same thing with my friends.. its easy to learn another person's style if you fight them a lot AND they dont have a great change up game.. you've still gotta work on your change ups tho; what to do when he starts throwing you for example.. they have to avoid being countered, and better opponents can use it to their advantage..

im still working on it myself.. ive got a medium quality A game and a comparable B option but i dont know enough about all the other characters.. i finally understand whats going on, stopping it is the problem.. counters work but they also force your opponent to do something else; advanced players will use throws or other nasty punishment techniques to avoid being countered..

 

Watching your friend and mine fightingwould be themost boring match ever Gernburgs.

 

Counter when you 'KNOW' you can counter what they are about to do... If a situation arrises where you think about countering and the word 'possible', 'maybe' or 'hope' flashes in your mind with it... Do not give your opponent the opportunity to massively destroy you because your doubts turned out to be true...

 

The countering is slowly starting to make way for sidesteps, blocking, and using various throws. My retarded dumbass totally forgot that switching to OS could knock 2 birds out with 1 stone. I can finally learn how to use OS and remove my countering tendency. My OS is coming along, I still need to work on setting up Intruder Step and doing combos that lead into the Takedown. I just need to get the set up combos down. Then maybe start playing both stances simultaneously.

My question now is when is a good time to side step (DM)? Should I DM just big moves? Combos? I have also seen players do a certain move to bait the opponent to throw a punch or kick then DM and punish. Any moves where that would be a good thing to use? Or is it as simple as "do moves with X frames"?

 

Sidestepping only certain moves comes with knowing what your opponent is going to throw at you... Usually I never do guess sidesteps, I'll block, if I see the person start a combo, I try to sidestep while they are in it... Expecially in offensive stance, if you can get a Lancer at their back because they are doing a 6 button dial up combo (Most Pai characters) then it's all beautiful...

 

holy shit, long, helpful post

 

I have read some of the wiki, but some of the stuff is hard to get a handle on. I am now just starting to wrap my head around the frame concept. So DM while your at a disadvantage, I am assuming you are talking frame wise. Will the DM sort of help with the frames of a big move?

Like say DS 6P+KP (grand spike) If my opponent blocks the 2nd hit can I DM if he throws a strike to compensate for the frame disadvantage? Or will I have to wait till the end of the duration of the move to use a DM?

EDIT: Oh and thanks for the info Sebo, you have some of the best posts on Van I have read so far. Gonna go ahead and say your posts helped my Van a lot.

 

another long and helpful post

 

Whats this...is Sebo on xbl? Or is it a joke?

 

This is true, for instance, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif will almost always hit a CPU outside of normal striking range... If it doesn't hit, the CPU will block it and be staggered instead... But the CPU is ruthless at times inside striking range, expecially with well timed evades and making you eat failed evades... There's one Vanessa CPU that always destroys me with perfectly timed sabaki's and well timed counter choke hold combos, but I can't think of it's name right off hand... But playing against that CPU will probably enlighten you a bit with the basics as to when to do what in Vanessa's move list...

 

@Kryptonix: You definitely want to learn about frames and how they work. Generally from -1 to -6 you would want to try fuzzy guarding which is quickly tapping down (or crouch dashing at -6 cause it's a frame faster) while blocking such that you will duck their throw or stand up quick enough to block their mid.

Basically you're abusing the frame window between mid and throw by ducking because throws are 12 frames and the fastest mids are generally at least 14 frames so you have a ~2 frame window where you can basically avoid both of your opponents standard options (I say standard because people will use techniques to defeat your fuzzy as well at higher levels.)

 

Can somebody now merge this thread with the already existing "Counters/Reversals with Vanessa" please?

 

Done.

 

So my options depend on the frames coming out of an attack. I actually started using crouch dash more since I am getting more and more used to OS.

I have a question about the fuzzy guard. Now Gernburgs said the fuzzy is used to duck the throw/block the quick mid attack. With Van in DS she has the neutral hand hold for all mid and high punches, would it be better if instead of going for the fuzzy to stay neutral and react accordingly?

Yeah, the computer I can get away with pretty cheap tactics while using Van. So right now I am trying to stay in the pocket as much as I can. I am still working on some things.

EDIT: Have another question can you buffer a throw escape while in fuzzying?

 

The neutral hold only takes punches, it doesnt take elbows (which is the main mid-hitting threat in such a situation) or other types of midattacks like sidekicks, knees, midcrescents, highkicks or doublehanded attacks. In some cases it may be feasible option, for instance Jackys main 14 frame mid attack is a midpunch instead of an elbow.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
EDIT: Have another question can you buffer a throw escape while in fuzzying? </div></div>
No. You may have to escape on reflex (for example a lowthrow) if need be. The fuzzy should beat all highthrows on correct timing so you shouldnt need to even.

 

No. You may have to escape on reflex (for example a lowthrow) if need be. The fuzzy should beat all highthrows on correct timing so you shouldnt need to even. </div></div>

Thanks for the info.