Discussion in 'The Vault' started by ice-9, Oct 24, 1999.

  1. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Two things impressed me while I was playing against the CPU today.

    1. I had been stopping a lot of CPU rushes with low kick MC throws (I was playing Jacky). Imagine my surprise when CPU Lau reversed my d/f,d/f+P+G throw on a low kick MC situation!!

    2. It was Stage 6 Aoi. I had begun mixing up my throws after a low kick MC situation. Imagine my surprise when, a tad bit late inputting the throw, the CPU Aoi did a d+P+K+G! (It worked because I had paused to get my throw input in but was late--hence not recovering out of my crouched position).

    Which kinda leads me to wonder--can you buffer in a low throw before a normal throw escape? How did the CPU know I was going to miss the 2 frame window? Or did it just make a guess? Hmm...

    Either way, it's been clear to me that whatever time was spent in "bettering" VF3tb for American release, most of the work was put into beefing up the CPU AI, and I definitely applaud Genki for that. What they did was brave, considering the fact that 99% of the general gaming media out there wouldn't know the game well enough to tell the CPU had been improved. The U.S. version of VF3tb is really a much better 1 player game.

    ice-9 | Sennin
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I think you're giving the CPU a little too much credit.

    I don't know much about programming, but it's my guess that the AI is nothing more than a bunch of if-then statements with a randomizer. Examples...

    If human is just sitting there crouching, then do low throw.

    If human does throw, then random (1-10). If number = 5, then do throw escape.

    These are just crap examples, but I really don't think the AI could be anything more than that.

    Mr. Pink
  3. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Hmm, yes, but the real skill is balancing out the percentages of those if statements. What's the point to throw escape when the computer is low kicked MC if a low kick MC throw technique doesn't exist, am I right?

    ice-9 | Sennin
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Um, as for the Aoi low throw stuff, it is 50/50.
    If any low throw character has been counter hit by a low kick, they can always low throw you (in this case Jacky) if they got the timing right. (Jacky has 2 fr of adv of the counter hit, so he has to wait for 2 fr, same thing with the low thrower (Aoi here))

    Since you are playing CPU here, i guess if they want to do it they can do it at exact timing. It is great to hear about this so you can get practice of low kick counter, low throw escape, standing throw sequence.
  5. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    That's my question--can the low throw escape be buffered into throw attempt? Also, if you are the defender, can the low throw attempt be buffered into the throw escape?

    I mean, that 2 frame window is pretty small...

    ice-9 | Sennin
  6. sta783

    sta783 Well-Known Member

    Re: low-TE + TE

    To answer your question, yes, low-throw can be buffered in before TE. Or vice versa, Throw buffered in before low-TE.

    This works because TE and low-TE are treated as separate entities.

    In this case scenario, Aoi could have done something like:
    d+P+K+G (low-throw) -> b+P+G (TE)

    And Jacky could do:
    f,b+P+G(throw) -> d+P+K+G (low-TE)

    My favorite thing to do with Wolf, when fighting against someone like Lion, is:

    stagger -> struggle -> low-throw -> f,b+P+G

    low-throw after the struggle will catch Lion's D_f+P+G as well as any fancy tricks from the crouch-dash. At the same time, Wolf can escape straight-forward HCB+PG throw as long as the TE-yomi is right.

    I love these kinds of stagger-struggle strategies, such as Akira's SPoD, Jacky's P+K, etc. I am trying to work on KG -> Giant Swing with Wolf, where the inspiration comes from Sumeragi's KG -> d/f, d/f+PG.

    Hmm...Ice-9...I thought you knew all these...because Hiro kept low-throwing you(esp. after stagger, or when you block high-rising kick, trying to be too fancy) at the NYG.
  7. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Re: low-TE + TE

    I thought he was reading my mind, as he told me he didn't bother with multiple escapes! /images/icons/frown.gif

    A favorite of mine against Step 2 players would be stagger -> QD -> K(G) -> b+P+G. Too bad with the advent of DE, TE, and QE it's no longer that useful of a technique. :\

    ice-9 | Sennin

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