Crushing and special high

Hello all,

What is a "crushing attack"?

and how would you know which attack is a "special high" attck since it doesnt say in command list?

Thanks a lot /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/blush.gif

 

Special high in VFDC command lists is denoted by H* as attack height.
the * means special that is.

"Crushing attack" is a term for attacks that avoid attacks of certain height. High-crush attack avoids high attacks during some part of its execution, low-crush attack avoids lows for example. Crushing attacks should not be mistaken for Sabaki attacks, that have inbuilt ability to beat certain types of moves.

 

Thanks Manjimaru /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Whats so "special" about special high attacks? And how is crushing attacks denoted on the command list.

thanks again /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cry.gif

 

Special High means that an attack is high, but it will strike out attacks that are crouching.

Take for example Aoi's Back + K attack. If you try to low punch it the attack will beat you. But if you just duck it the attack will whiff above your head.

 

Usually a high attack will lose out to a low attack - eg, if you execute a high punch and your opponent executes a low punch you will be countered pretty much regardless of how late your opponent attacks.

Special high attacks on the other hand will beat low attacks if timed correctly. Generally, this allows you to attack without having to worry about your opponent using low punch, the most common counter attack, to stop you.

 

Crushing attacks arent marked in the VFDC command lists. Basically its just about doing an attack that crouches during its animation so it will crouch under hihg attacks. For some moves it is more subtle than that, and you just gotta know or ask what they are for which character.

Additionally:

special mid = attack connects with crouchers, but doesnt knock down, rather it will lift the croucher to standing position. (example: Shun /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif)

Special low = attack that hits low but can be blocked both from standing and crouching position. Low punch is the only one of these.

 

Well it might be my mistake, because that term doesnt originate from VF but rather from other fighting games. I thought it would mean that.. So sorry if Im wrong. Sometimes terms get mixed up and if people still keep using them they start to live life of their own..

Ive seen the term used in vfdc already though, for example talking about Akiras /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif that evades high attacks during its execution even if its not a low attack. I think someone else once described it as "highcrush" and there were other examples so I kept on using the term. After all thats not the only attack in the game with such properties, so it might be beneficial to have a collective term.

Or it could be that my memory is playing on me..

 

Tekken uses the term "high crush" when a move (like 2P) beats an high attack, and "low crush" when a move like a jumping kick beats low attacks.

As foreign as it might seem to VF players, this is actually a new thing in Tekken 5, in older Tekken games standing jabs would beat crouching jabs in adv and so forth.

 

About speacial high beating low if timeed right it dosn't beat all low attcks, it works for most 2P and 2k attacks. Lion as example: it works with 2p & 1k but with 2k and 1P it won't connect.

 

Hey M. The term was used as a "counter" for ppl abusing 2p. i dont remember exactly on which topic but someone suggested that as one possible alternative of countering 2p.

 

Couple of things:

explanation of special high:
http://virtuafighter.com/wiki/doku.php?id=vf5:system_part_2#attack_levels

MystD - do you have an example of lion's lows beating special high?

Special mid isn't a question of knocking down or not; it's whether a mid attack can be guarded low for reduced / no damage. There are special mids that don't knock down even against standing opponents (e.g vB aoi's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif ).

There are plenty of special lows besides /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif:

eileen|/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif
eileen|/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif
kage|(zenten or kouten) /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif
kage|/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif
leifei|/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif
lion|/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif
pai|/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif
shun|/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif
wolf|/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif
akira|/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif

 

Lion's low kick /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif beats special high attacks in general.

While there are probably other low attacks that can virtually always win against special high, it's the only one that I know of.

-Chanchai

 

Lei Fei's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif beats special highs. Wrap your head around that.

 

For some reason mid attacks that have low hit boxes will never be hit by special high.

Lei Fei /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is like the new Kage slap and makes me have serious headaches.

 

Vane's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif is supposed to be special high but i've been low kicked out of it by kage and sarah sometimes. It has never happened to me with OS /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif though, which is supposed to be special high too. At least until now. Could somebody test/offer an explanation on that?

 

They probably hit you first before you were airborne.

 

Just adding something. DOA players use the term "crush" the same way, as an attack that ducks/jumps over another attack and hits the opponent after dodging. For "clashing" attacks that do not dodge, we would say that one attack "beats out" another.


Question. Special high attacks ALWAYS beat ducking attacks if the special high executes first (with active frames), right? Or is this true for special highs only against low punches?

 

Should beat all lows, although VF5 has some weird hitboxes so Im not sure if there are some exceptions.. intentional or unintentional.