Damn Sega!

Re: Maybe, I Did... Maybe, I Did More Than You Think...

<font color=yellow>I didn't imply that Sega did not care nor do I even say it. I do imply and say right here that Sega did not plan well and, because of that planning, Sega left the consumer with a sack of old and obsolete goods... AGAIN... and Sega should have anticipated the market in light of it. We, as consumers, had the opportunity to be more wary. Fortunately, I was among the ones with more foresight the second time around: I waited patiently with my PSX and watched Sega squander a 9 month window that Dreamcast and Nintendo 64 should have exploited to take away great chunks of market from Sony and eat into Sony's plans for PS2. They both blew it and now they're playing catch up again. It's hard to come back when you're that far behind...</font color=yellow>

 

Re: True

I fully understand your frustration with the lack of support for the DC. I wasn't too happy with the Saturn situation either. That being said, I still can't force myself to be angry at Sega. They made some bad decisions, true. But they lost a LOT of money doing it, so you know that they were never out to screw us over. They seemed to think that if they built it, consumers would come. Sony knew that if they hyped it, consumers would come. We all know who won. As for Sega releasing the means to pirate DC games, I'd have to call bullshit there. No one company can stop the efforts of pirates, hackers, thieves, etc. The only thing Sega would have sold this way is consoles, not games, and the money comes from software, not hardware.

I do not, in any way shape or form, regret my decision to buy the Saturn or the DC. I spent more time on those consoles than on all others combined. If it comes down to dollar-per-hour value, the DC makes my XBOX and PS2 hang their heads in shame. I do wish that Sega had been able to support those systems longer. I was disappointed more than once, but that's life.

Sega made some good systems and some great games. Their mistake was relying on the product to sell itself.

 

She Already Agrees With Your Bottom Line

<font color=yellow>stonerbum, Pinkgirl already agrees with your bottom line:</font color=yellow><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

<font color=white>I kind of realised Dreamcast would be doomed once the PS2 was out but I never dreamed they would 1) stop production of games for the system...</font color=white>

<hr></blockquote><font color=yellow>Kindly refer the first and succeeding posts before proceeding. Thank you.</font color=yellow>

 

Re: She Already Agrees With Your Bottom Line

Hang on a minute WINKLE! I was arguing against the fact that Pinkgirl (seemingly) is blaming sega for the demise of Dreamcast, which simply isn't true. She admits herself it was inevitable.
You argue that Sega missed an opportunity to take market share from Sony, but you make it sound a lot easier than it really is. Its not like Sony and their Playstation ever went away, their adverts were still on whilst Dreamcast adverts failed to materilise - because Sega doesn't have the money Sony has.
Also, the majority of PSX owners looked at the Dreamcast and thought it was nice and everything, but first of all its made by Sega (who had a bad rep after Saturn) and the promise of a PS2 on the horizon meant not that hardly any of them bought Dreamcast, opting to wait for something better. So you see, even if Sega had the finances for mass advertisement they still would have had problems persuading people to leave the Sony bandwagon. Also stop complaining that games aren't being made for it anymore, I mean when a console 'dies' or whatever term you wanna use, is it usual practice for software companies to continue to make products for said console? No. All I want is for people to stop making out like Sega took the money and ran, that's all.

 

Re: She Already Agrees With Your Bottom Line

Thank you Sayow, you proved my point .
Games didnt matter, it was idiots like you who refused to take the plunge and buy an awesome console with some of the best games ever made that were the problem .
That wasnt foresight by you, it was a selffulfilling prophecy by you and people of youre ilk .
Gameplay and actual content doesnt matter public perception and fulfilling that perception is all you care about .
You sir make me sick and hearing you talk about it claiming to have FORESIGHT makes me want to punch you in the face .
Otherwise no offense, I still like you as much as I did before /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

 

Re: She Already Agrees With Your Bottom Line

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

<font color=white>Games didnt matter, it was idiots like you who refused to take the plunge and buy an awesome console with some of the best games ever made that were the problem .
That wasnt foresight by you, it was a selffulfilling prophecy by you and people of youre ilk . </font color=white>

<hr></blockquote><font color=yellow>I don't know how you approached this matter, Almaci but I conceded the quality end of this argument to Sega a long while before even entering this discussion. I even conceded that N64 was better than PSX in quality. And I didn't doomsay Sega from the beginning; I waited to see if it would take over a large enough portion of the market to keep its side going for a longer time. You're going to have to explain this idea of "a selffulfilling prophecy". I'm too naive to follow your genius.</font color=yellow>
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

<font color=white>Gameplay and actual content doesnt matter public perception and fulfilling that perception is all you care about .
You sir make me sick and hearing you talk about it claiming to have FORESIGHT makes me want to punch you in the face . </font color=white>

<hr></blockquote><font color=yellow>Actually, gameplay and content matter in as much as I have money to put forth toward that enjoyment. Public perception only means as much to me as it will make me money in the stock market. Fulfilling that perception holds the same weight: show me the money. Last year, my financial portfolio went up 20+% in a bear market; so knowing that whatever perception I had of the public and the market last year was quite personally satisfying. If you're rich enough to afford all the beans in the world, by all means, Almaci, buy up the world for all I care... Q: when money is tight, is it worth it to buy a $200 machine just to play 2-4 games or do I buy into a lesser system at the same price but play 10-20 games? Only you know about your situation. Me: I'm buying that lesser system.

You presume too much, Almaci. Do not put words in my mouth.

If you don't buy my manner of explanation of 'foresight', then too bad. My business deals with foresight all the time: safety. If we are not proactive, we are, by default, reactive. If we don't anticipate a situation, we are reacting to its effects. Sega entered a situation that is similar in regard to being proactive and reactive. Sega showed itself to be less proactive and more reactive in the console wars. When I first started consuming these things, Nintendo ruled the market for a long time. Eventually, Sony took over for a while. Sony is proactive; MS is proactive: just look at each system offers and what they are reaching for in the future. I'm not sure what to make of Nintendo yet but it looks reactive. History will tell us for sure. As a consumer, I need foresight as well in this industry and I need keep asking questions and listen to people who do have the answers. Hopefully, I can make good decisions with my hard earned cash and buy into a system that won't end up as a paperweight.

Almaci, I had no beef with you coming into this argument. I don't know why you insist in making this personal. I don't owe you anything and I don't see the point of making this a flame war. Why do you persist in harassing me with namecalling and insults? I have done nothing to you. No one holds a gun to your head to read what I've written here. You can simply make your point and move forward without making personal comment.</font color=yellow>

 

Re: She Already Agrees With Your Bottom Line

I don't know why you insist in making this personal.


I enjoy it, got a problem with that ?
Well do you................PUNK .

 

WINKLE?

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

<font color=white>You argue that Sega missed an opportunity to take market share from Sony, but you make it sound a lot easier than it really is. Its not like Sony and their Playstation ever went away, their adverts were still on whilst Dreamcast adverts failed to materilise - because Sega doesn't have the money Sony has.</font color=white>

<hr></blockquote><font color=yellow>I agree that it was not going to be easy for Sega to succeed, stonerbum. My contention with Sega's action at that time is that it did not appear that Sega was playing to win: the window was open and their advertising on all fronts did not get more aggressive. Maybe you saw something else. I did not. I'm only guessing here: I think that Sega relied heavily on the lure of online play to draw more people over. Not claiming to be the sum of all people, it held little interest for me in that there were only a few games that I could see myself wanting to play online and, with the relatively small consumer base that Sega Dreamcast had, I did not see a great future coming from it. Too few players to play with; interest eventually dying out...</font color=yellow>
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

<font color=white>Also stop complaining that games aren't being made for it anymore, I mean when a console 'dies' or whatever term you wanna use, is it usual practice for software companies to continue to make products for said console? No. All I want is for people to stop making out like Sega took the money and ran, that's all.</font color=white>

<hr></blockquote><font color=yellow>:uts hand on a book whose authority you recognize::

I'm taking Pinkgirl at her word on this. Honest! I haven't done any further research regarding the issue nor do I care to. But I am not satisfied with the way Sega supported its console. I made money the last couple of years suspecting that companies like Sega would do what they did. In light of that, I'm kind of glad Sega doesn't support its consoles well... You, on the other hand stonerbum, sound like you have a personal or financial stake in Sega. Do you?

Also, what does </font color=yellow><font color=orange>WINKLE </font color=orange><font color=yellow>mean? My first instinct is take that as an insult since I've been treated in the same manner by Almaci... Please explain.</font color=yellow>

 

Re: She Already Agrees With Your Bottom Line

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

Actually, gameplay and content matter in as much as I have money to put forth toward that enjoyment.
Public perception only means as much to me blah blah businessman crap blah blah when money is tight, is it worth it to buy a $200 machine just to play 2-4 games
or do I buy into a lesser system at the same price but play 10-20 games? Only you know about your
situation. Me: I'm buying that lesser system.

<hr></blockquote>

Dude... if you're looking at videogaming from an economist standpoint, you are seriously in the wrong hobby.
Try telling the guy who is going to be buying <a target="_blank" href=http://www.videogamedepot.com/shop/product.asp?pf%5Fid=01I006013111>this</a> that his $425 would be better spent on a PS and some games rather than an ungodly rare title for a dead console. You will be roasted alive.
By that standpoint... the best system you could possibly buy would be a Genesis/MD, the thing is dirt cheap now, and look at all the cheap, awesome games you can get for it! (and the not-so-cheap, rare ones too!)
As for me, I have a personal story... Sega was in dire financial straits in 1998, with the Saturn dying the the cost of bringing out the DC weighing heavy. As a result, they did not bring the highly anticipated Fighting Vipers 2 arcade game to western shores.
Being the FV fanatic I was, I was incredibly disappointed. I wanted to see FV2 more than anything! So, I started working, and I eventually saved up enough money to buy and arcade cabinet, and then import the FV2 boards from Japan for $600.
After setting it up, I had the only working FV2 in the US (and still do). Some people couldn't believe I had spent that much, but the game was beautiful, and totally worth it.
Sega brought it out on DC later in 2001, even though it looked like they never would, because Sega realized it had fans to please and an excellent game many people wanted to play. Was I angry with my investment then? Hell no. I still love my FV2 dearly, and I was elated that more people could be able to enjoy it.
What does your "business sense" say to THAT?
And for god's sake, PLEASE turn the yellow text off. My eyes are very photosensitive, it gives me a headache.

 

Re: She Already Agrees With Your Bottom Line

Il translate in a non polite way what zero-chan said politely .
Fuck you you fucking twat, you call yourself a gamer ?
Hah we laugh at youre idiocy, gaming is art and magic rolled into one, its an alternate reality in wich we can escape the grim reality called every day life .
I pity youre number crunching common denominator approach to what is and what always should be about interactive experiences that manage to alleviate us from oure daily troubles .

Let me ask you, are you able to enjoy ANNYTHING in life for what it is instead of analysing it and trying to decide if the nuymbers will ad up ?

 

No Problem...

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

<font color=white>What does your "business sense" say to THAT?</font color=white>

<hr></blockquote><font color=orange>I would think my answer to your question would be known to you by how summarily you redacted it in quoting me: if you have all the money in the world to by it, by all means, have yourself a ball and buy it. The point of sale is reached when need, use, value and availability meet the consumer's criteria. Likewise, if the product holds that kind of value in your mind. By your own admission, yhe VF4 boards were worth it to you. Also by your own admission, you imply that you the only one who feels that way in the US at the moment: you are the only one who feels that your boards are worth it. Who's to tell you that you're wrong? If your pleasure and happiness have a $600 price tag, who am I to tell you that cannot spend your money to achieve that happiness? Go on, Zero-chan! Enjoy yourself and have a good time... I just know that I wouldn't do it.

I'm beginning to wonder if what I say is getting lost in the translation. I'm not here to advocate any particular manner of spending nor am I trying to tell people where there money should go... Do what you want to do.

Let me know if orange hurts your eyes, too. I keep looking for another color that works for both of us. The </font color=orange>off-white <font color=orange>color jacks with my eyes in the same way yellow jacks with yours.</font color=orange> <font color=white>White works for me, too.</font color=white>

<font color=orange>EDIT - I keep after business/economic angle on this because that's the way I thought Pinkgirl was taking it. This is her topic, after all, and I'm glad to entertain the idea. So far, she's said nothing to me about being off topic.</font color=orange>

 

Re: She Already Agrees With Your Bottom Line

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

Try telling the guy who is going to be buying this that his $425 would be better spent on a PS and some games rather than an ungodly rare title for a dead console. You will be roasted alive.

<hr></blockquote>
Hey Zero-chan, thanks for the link! I've been looking for that game for a while, but I can't justify spending over $200 for it. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif


To be a little more on topic... up until I got out of school, I had to carefully choose what games and systems to spend my money on. I can understand that some people don't have the money to just spend on whatever console and games that they like so most people just buy the most likely one to have the games they like.

Now, for a hardcore gamer, consoles don't matter, it's the games that matter. So that kind of person will buy games first, then consoles/arcade boards/etc to satisfy the need to play the game. Personally, I'm near the hardcore area. However there are only a few games that will make me buy a console for... and so far only one hasn't come out on a console yet.

As for what the original poster said about the DC being worthless now... I'll just say that DC would have become "worthless" eventually anyway. It's too bad that it died out so soon. There are still DC games coming out, in Japan of course. However compared to my PS2, DC has more worth even now. VF4 kinda tipped the scales toward PS2 though, I must admit.

Oh and in today's console market... to me, it's not even about which one's the best, it's about which one sucks the least.

 

Re: Toy Fighter (Was: She Already Agrees With Your Bottom Line)

Personal grudges against Sega, eh?

A few years ago, Sega had a 3D fighting game titled Toy Fighter. I saw it at a local arcade once, but didn't play it. Didn't see it anywhere else either. Within a week or two of the sighting, I happened by the Toy Fighter official HP in the Sega Japan site, and learnt that my favourite female seiyuu of all times, Tsuru Hiromi sama, voiced Vitamin the Kitchen Princess, one of the chara in Toy Fighter. I went back to that arcade during that weekend, and that Toy Fighter was gone. Oh f_ck. AFAIK, but I hope I'm wrong, Toy Fighter was never released for the DC or any consumer game platform. This disappointed me so much that I didn't finish typing up Vitamin's command list from copies of her command list that I collected here and there in the Web. For example:
http://www.geocities.co.jp/Playtown-Denei/7153/toyfighter/vita.htm

Before Namco released Tekken 3 and Soul Edge Ver.I, I was a big suppoter of Sega too.

 

Re: Toy Fighter (Was: She Already Agrees With Your Bottom Line)

Unless I'm mistaken, Toy Fighter isn't a fighting game. It's a hybrid game in which you go through various stages through a variety of toys trying to accomplish a goal. This included flying toy plains, driving toy tanks, using toy soldiers, etc... I've seen the game at just about every game store I've been to by far, at least when it was in good distribution not too long after the US launch of the DC. It generally got good reviews if I recall. I only played the demo, but I actually enjoyed it.

Reflecting on the demo, it seemed pretty well executed for one of those concept games that came in droves with the growing (or grown) popularity of 3d games.

-Chanchai

 

Re: Toy Fighter (Was: She Already Agrees With Your Bottom Line)

I played Toy Fighter a few times. Pretty interesting game. A round ended when you depleted the enemy's life bar (-1 point for enemy) or a successful throw(!!) for -1 (or -2?) points depending on the throw. Whoever lost all their points first (usually 2pts for 2 rounds) lost the match.

This game had throw escapes for every throw... getting out of throws meant you escaped then grabbed the person in another grapple position. Which in turn the other player could escape your throw attempt and grapple you. I believe this could go on indefinitely as long as you inputted the correct escape sequence. Since one throw regardless of life would end the round, it was important to know how to escape throws.

AFAIK, this game was only released in the arcades. Even the arcade where I played it only had it for like a couple weeks. I only saw maybe 1 or 2 people play the game. I guess you're lucky to have even seen that game. I don't think it was in the arcades for very long.

 

Re: Toy Fighter (Was: She Already Agrees With Your Bottom Line)

Actually, you're thinking about Toy Commander, a pretty good game in it's own right, but not the obscure fighter he was referring to.

On a somewhat related topic, I wanna pick up another DC, this one Japanese, but they're sold out in most places even in Japan. You can still find brand new Super Famis and Famis in stores though.

 

Re: An aside on piracy 2

Now, Xbox games reportedly can be copied:
http://slashdot.jp/article.pl?sid=02/05/06/0538217&mode=thread

 

Re: An aside on piracy 2

I feel that the DC was the best console I ever bought. My main reason I bought it was for the Shenmue series. Shenmue II is one of my greatest experiences in gaming. The thing I loved about DC is how it came out with so many great games, and original titles. I mean damn my ps2 was collecting alot of dust until I got VF4. I still have lots of DC games I haven't even played yet, just haven't had enough time. But I gotta say that DC is one of the best and most innovative consoles that has come out.