DC players - gamepad or Arcade stick ?

Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by Guest, Apr 14, 2001.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Hi!
    I am playing VF3 a lot on the Dreamcast now and I am using the game pad that came with the DC. Do most of you DC players use the game pad or is it important to get an arcade stick??

    Curious if I should get one.
    Thanks !
    Jeff
     
  2. Sudden_Death

    Sudden_Death Well-Known Member

    get the stick, noone uses the pad for vf3

    [​IMG]
    fuck spelling!
     
  3. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    Definitely go with a good arcade stick of some sort.

    I haven't tested VF3 on what I consider "bad sticks" (I think I'm gonna abuse EB's return policy to do this sometime), but I pretty much believe that any stick is better than the pad for VF3 (and to a far lesser degree, Virtua Tennis too actually).

    For VF3, the list is huge in terms of advantages of stick over pad. The basic example is probably Akira, but it goes beyond that. Struggling, quick precision, feel. They all benefit from a stick.

    Sticks I recommend:
    -Homemade arcade stick (there seems to be people all over who do this as a hobby) if you really like US styled tear-drop sticks. The alternative is a MAS stick, but beware of the heavy spring version (at least it'll strengthen your forearm).

    -If you like loose sticks, I recommend the Capcom vs. SNK limited edition stick. This thing is expensive though. You can find it at <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.ncsx.com>NCS</A> among other places. I like this stick a lot, even more than US styled sticks. The alternative is getting the Official Arcade Stick, which is the Agetec Arcade Stick in the US. I personally think it's a great stick (though it has its flaws). Quality varies though, because some sticks get stuck. I've fixed this problem with tweaking (usually tightening areas around the stick itself).

    -If you like tight sticks, and something like a Japanese feel (though not quite there I think), modified agetec sticks. But I already posted on that in the general forum discussion. So many methods to do. Basic Rule: "Whatever you can to restrict the movement of the stick." I used a washer, Shota used some sort of tubing, and I think Spotlite used electrical tape (I imagine very thin electrical tape).

    Hope that helps, for your VF sake I hope you get a stick, but a good stick. Good luck finding one/versus/images/icons/smile.gif

    -Chanchai

    Note: Loose and Tight have sort of become jargon here. Loose refers to a bigger area of movement (moving the stick farther from the neutral position). Tight refers to a smaller area of movement. I know it can be easy to confuse these terms to the spring, but in this post that wasn't what I meant. I usually use heavy or soft to describe the spring.
     
  4. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Get a stick! Supposedly, the best commercial DC stick available are the newer gray ones made by ASCII but they are only available in Japan. Most of us buy the Agetech stick with the green buttons.
     
  5. Sudden_Death

    Sudden_Death Well-Known Member

    jeff, is this it?

    [​IMG]

    <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.shinforce.com/dreamcast/peripherals/Sticks.htm>http://www.shinforce.com/dreamcast/peripherals/Sticks.htm</A>


    <font color=red>PICCOLO</font color=red>

    [​IMG]
    fuck spelling!
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    uh....

    Resident lurker here again... I guess I count as nobody then ^_^. I could understand why people would hate the DC pad, but I don't think I will ever be able to understand why people have a such preference for joysticks. I've been playing VF since the height of VF2's popularity and it seemed that on most of the machines I've come across, I could never consistently hit diagonals. Stuff like that (as a newbie, I dreamed of the day I would be able to do a sidekick, sheesh) left the proverbial bad taste in my mouth, allowing for a horrid sense of inferiority to grasp me each time joysticks are mentioned. Even on the sticks that come close to being decent IMO in terms of feel and accuracy, I still can't do a bloody thing (or at least I can do a great deal more on basically any pad). I play VF3 with a d-pad exclusively because of both my blind hatred toward sticks and my utter lack of hand dexterity. Still, I don't know what would be more funny: me showing up at a VF gathering with the standard DC pad, me showing up with a controller converter and a Saturn pad, or me playing against people using controllers and actually winning a few matches (feel free to add "with style" for even bigger laughs...)

    I've been rambling and ranting yet again. This does not seem to be the best way to make oneself known to the VF community...

    ~I ran out of things to say, RagingMasochist~
     
  7. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Re: uh....

    RagingMasochist, what you experienced is the horror of the typical, worn down American arcade joystick with the round base. Do not worry because even I, a hardcore stick user (I even use a joystick for sidescrolling and shooting games whenever I can) cannot use American arcade sticks with any consistency.

    The Agetech on the other hand has a square base and it's much easier to hit those diagonals (Asian arcade sticks also have square bases).

    Piccolo -- yup, those are the ASCII sticks I've been hearing about. The Agetech sticks most of us own are actually also ASCII designed and Sega produced in Japan (I think, don't quote me, but ASCII is owned by CSK, the parent of Sega) but after complaints about the Agetech sticks ASCII designed the grey successor which supposedly addressed problems associated with the original sticks.
     
  8. DeLune

    DeLune Well-Known Member

    IMO, I think SEGA official Arcade Stick is the best. The base is quite steady so you won't feel the stick moving too much while playing. I try playing arcade games such as DOA2 and VF3 using d-pad, and I always have difficulty pulling off some moves. Maybe its just me. ;p
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    why does everybody bash on the DC sticks, I work in an arcade(along study). And I get in touch with the typical sega joysticks(when they are broke). i opened the DC-stick and surprise,surprise, Sega uses the same sticks as the arcade counterparts?!?
     
  10. Cause

    Cause Well-Known Member

    On pad usage

    I use the pad for Soul Caliber and think it's the best choice for that game, I was taught to use the stick for VF though and must say it far better than the pad.

    - The VF Student -
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    thanks for advice

    Thanks for all the advice on the arcade stick... im going to get one !
    Jeff

    ps. yes like that picture piccolo
     
  12. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Same parts maybe (I wouldn't know), but the Agetech sticks are definitely different from both American and Japanese (Blast, Astro and Versus City) arcade sticks.

    Jeff, investing in a stick is a good decision. It will feel awkward for the first few weeks but I urge you to practice with it. Play any and all fighting games on the stick. Once you get used to it it's hard to go back to the controller.

    To me, the leap from controller -> stick for fighting games is like gamepad -> keyboard+mouse for FPS games.
     
  13. Shadowdean

    Shadowdean Well-Known Member

    Re: On pad usage

    And if you really listened to me, you would use the frikken stick gawdamnit! lol...thats another discussion :)
    Well, for serious play...get a stick..the agitek ones can be found if you look, though be prepaired to pay upwards of 65 dollars.

    "Victory can be anticipated, but not assured" Sun-Tzu
     
  14. ghostdog

    ghostdog Well-Known Member

    Re: On pad usage

    Where can I find an Agetec Stick?


    -GhostDog
     
  15. Sudden_Death

    Sudden_Death Well-Known Member

    these sticks are indeed available in the USA, they are just called the capcom VS snk sticks. compare:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]



    <font color=red>PICCOLO</font color=red>







    [​IMG]
    fuck spelling!
     
  16. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    I believe (well, I'm pretty sure) that the top picture in Pic's post (same as the first pic he posted in this thread) is the Ascii Arcade Stick. The second pic is the Capcom vs. SNK stick, by Ascii--Capcom edition (it is so weird, though most likely a CvS Crossover theme, that they use SNK colors for the "Capcom" stick and Capcom colors for the "SNK stick; SNK stick = White and Blue).

    Difference between the Ascii Stick and CvS stick then? Ascii Stick uses microswitches I believe, and gray color. CvS edition sticks come in two color choices, come with a CvS special limited edition collector card (wow/versus/images/icons/tongue.gif), but most importantly: the CvS stick has an optical base. No loud clicks, moves around without any resistance except the spring used (you won't feel the click of the switches, naturally), and supposedly better overall.

    I imagine the price difference between the two is quite a bit. CvS sticks can be found at Buy Rite and NCS among other places, but they go for around 75-85 bucks (shipping cost not included). Excellent sticks though. I posted a review in the general forum (you can look it up with the nice "search" utility; hint: look at what options you select carefully).

    -Chanchai

    P.S. To whomever was concerned about using a pad at a gathering, don't worry. If you've used sticks and for whatever reason feel you're better with a pad, bring a pad if you go to a tournament or gathering that uses a DC to play VF3tb. Whatever preference you use, you definitely gotta use what you are comfortable with, right? Heck, for the life of me I can't use any other person's Agetecs except my own for about at least an hour before I'm really comfortable. However, I'm certain that any person who has spent a good amount of time on a decent stick on VF3tb will tend to prefer it.

    Jeff's point about US style sticks on VF machines ring true to me. However, for me, it's not because of the style of the stick (as I grew up on US sticks), it's just that whatever standard stick is used for VF machines in the US has reached my opinion of, "utter crap." I tend to be happy on custom built or stick-replaced VF machines than using the overly long sticks that I see on many VF machines.
     
  17. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I know most everyone at this site has weighed in on this, but I just wanted to add my own point of view.

    I think the Dreamcast pad is great for a lot of things, like the sports titles, and especially the driving games. But for fighting games, it is just plain lousy. Soul Calibur is the one exception; in fact, its brilliance with the standard joypad is one reason it has proven so poplar. But with VF3, the digital pad is terrible. It's real weakness lies in trying to perform any diagonal movements with any consistency. Because pressing up makes a fighter jump, those of us using the joypad, more often than not, end up using the joypad results in hops instead of chops. Even relatively easy maneuvers (for VFDC veterans, at least) like Lau's Elbow-Palm or Pai's three punch combo-whatever-it's-called (dfP,P,fP) are frustratingly difficult. I've been a huge VF fan since the first one, and if I'm having trouble doing basic moves, I can only imagine how hard it must be for newbies. Buying a joystick is fine, but joysticks are pricey. If you can find some good sticks for under $25 then consider yourself lucky. Perhaps the death of Dreamcast will result in lower prices for existing peripherals.

    Daniel Thomas
     
  18. Sudden_Death

    Sudden_Death Well-Known Member

    dude, the only thing that fucks the dc pad for vf3, is the button layout, the diagonals are fine and perfect.

    [​IMG]
    fuck spelling!
     
  19. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    As far as I know, colors and looks aside, there are about two generations of the DC Gamepad.

    The initial generation had a design flaw where the D-pad was too low and next to analog. The major issue with this was that pressing up-left might be met with hitting the analog area (the plastic area around the analog stick). The other issue was that hitting one of the lower diagonals would have issues because the curved shape of the face of the controller would allow one to not press that diagonal all the way.

    However, soon after this, Sega rereleased controllers that were fixed, the D-Pad was raised significantly and was moved a bit further away from the analog stick.

    Just thought someone might find that info interesting.

    -Chanchai
     
  20. Hayai_JiJi

    Hayai_JiJi Well-Known Member

    Re: On pad usage

    Ebay is the only place I have ever seen them. I broke down and bought a 113 dollar MAS stick.

    Under the surface of the most jaded cynic lies a dissappointed idealist- George Carlin
     

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