DC vs Arcade - where is my advil?

Discussion in 'The Vault' started by Shadowdean, Oct 9, 2000.

  1. Shadowdean

    Shadowdean Well-Known Member

    Is this really worth getting that worked up about? Fact- should the arcade inception been like the dreamcast inception, and the dreamcast like the current arcade version - almost everyone would have been blathering about the Arcade was so much worse...is it that hard to think that maybe it got better? {Except for making Sarah lighter :) } We all enjoy it, we all get together, spend rediculious amounts of money to travel to meet and play the game; so why can't we just have fun?
     
  2. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
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    Myke623
    Is this really worth getting that worked up about? Fact- should the arcade inception been like the dreamcast inception, and the dreamcast like the current arcade version - almost everyone would have been blathering about the Arcade was so much worse...is it that hard to think that maybe it got better? {Except for making Sarah lighter :) } We all enjoy it, we all get together, spend rediculious amounts of money to travel to meet and play the game; so why can't we just have fun?

    You want to talk 'Facts'?

    Fact #1: Your continual insistance on creating new threads rather than contributing to an already existing one is really beginning to piss me off.

    Fact #2: You subject headers still make no sense. Just what the fuck is 'advil' anyway.

    Fact #3: The Dreamcast version is not the same (read: not as good) as the Arcade version. Therefore, yes, it's pretty fucking hard to think that "maybe it got better". Because it didn't.

    Fact #4: We weren't talking about just meeting and having fun. We're talking about a damn tournament, an all open world fucking tournament, pal.

    Have a nice day now.

    P.S. I just found out that advil is some kind of painkiller you have over there, so ignore my 'wtf is advil' remark. But, in general, your subject headers are usually retarded anyway.

    __
    m y k e
    how ya gonna win when ya ain't right within?<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Myke on 10/9/00 10:52 PM.</FONT></P>
     
  3. clopin

    clopin Well-Known Member

    aaaaaa...... hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
     
  4. Shadowdean

    Shadowdean Well-Known Member

    You want to talk 'Facts'?

    Fact #1: Your continual insistance on creating new threads rather than contributing to an already existing one is really beginning to piss me off.
    -How about not want to wade through a million differen't threads...try thinking outside your little world

    Fact #3: The Dreamcast version is not the same (read: not as good) as the Arcade version. Therefore, yes, it's pretty fucking hard to think that "maybe it got better". Because it didn't.
    THIS IS NOT FACT - please Myke..assuming you can type, you can read - take the time to read my post. What are stating is OPINION - NOT fact. Good lord...please don't burst a blood vessel.
    Fact #4: We weren't talking about just meeting and having fun. We're talking about a damn tournament, an all open world fucking tournament, pal.
    -Yeah, you may want to seek stress managment classes dude...
    Have a nice day now.
    -Actually, I've had a great day..how about you?
    P.S. I just found out that advil is some kind of painkiller you have over there, so ignore my 'wtf is advil' remark. But, in general, your subject headers are usually retarded anyway.

    For someoen who can not even seem to have the capacity to respond to my threads with any sort of thought out response, I am amazed at myself for even responding to your attack...if you get some small pleasure out of life by making some attacks - good for you, and I pitty you.
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Well said
     
  6. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    -How about not want to wade through a million differen't threads...try thinking outside your little world

    Who asked you to wade through a million differen't(sic) threads? Try reading one, and refrain from creating others, especially when you're directly referring/replying to an existing thread topic. Do you even know what a thread is?

    THIS IS NOT FACT - please Myke..assuming you can type, you can read - take the time to read my post. What are stating is OPINION - NOT fact. Good lord...please don't burst a blood vessel.

    Let me take that a step further: assuming you can type, you can read, but can you comprehend? I think I made the mistake in assuming that reading comprehension wasn't too difficult for you, even when it came to reading your own posts.

    Unfortunately, I took the time to read your post. If you were stating your own personal opinion, then why did you preceed your sentence with the word FACT, huh? Did you, or did you not write:

    <blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>


    Fact- should the arcade inception been like the dreamcast inception, and the dreamcast like the current arcade version - almost everyone would have been blathering about the Arcade was so much worse...is it that hard to think that maybe it got better?

    <hr></blockquote>

    The FACT is, objectively speaking, the arcade version is better than the dreamcast version. Subjectively you might think otherwise, and you're entitled to, but that statement was pretty fucking far from being a fact; I just thought I'd let you know.

    -Yeah, you may want to seek stress managment classes dude...

    Replying to your posts is an exercise in stress relief, man. If I didn't reply, I think I would have seriously injured myself.

    And learn to quote, eh?

    __
    m y k e
    how ya gonna win when ya ain't right within?
     
  7. Shadowdean

    Shadowdean Well-Known Member

    Then your obviously not trying hard enough...let me supply the brick...

    I NEVER made a statement that something is a fact - I said, the DC could be considered better due to the changes...if you woul get it through your thick skull that possibly some people enjoy the d.c one more, then you may be able to comprehend what I was saying in the beginning....it is great when people just play into my hands.
    I know full well how to quote and just do so in another mannor....
    Fact is Myke, as much you may not want to deny it, your OPINION that the arcade version is better is just that - can you supply ANY concrete evidence to why the arcade version is better? If so, I am all eyes.
     
  8. GodEater

    GodEater Well-Known Member

    Fact is Myke, as much you may not want to deny it, your OPINION that the arcade version is better is just that - can you supply ANY concrete evidence to why the arcade version is better? If so, I am all eyes.

    First of all, I like the fact that you wrote eyes
    instead of ears. Shows your thinking about the
    medium you're using. Woo hoo!

    Second. C'mon now. Is this a bait? Concrete
    reasons that aren't based upon feeling but empiricism?
    Know about Platonic forms and what you get the further
    you move away from that form (side note: Aristotle,
    following Plato had some scary ideas about artists
    because of the way they counterfited reality)? Think
    of the arcade version as the initial form, any work
    that acts as a copy of that form is just that...a copy.
    Take a picture and photocopy it--go ahead, I'll wait.
    Now, take that copy and copy it and then...well I think
    you can see where I'm going with this...

    You see, without messing with the baser matter of opinion
    I can point to several things off the top of my head that
    mark the Arcade version being better. Models, costume
    choice (Taka's third suit was removed in the DC port),
    changes made specifically to round out the game that were
    undone by the programmers at Genki. ...aaaand such and
    such.

    Really, though, the only reason I need to give is that
    the arcade version doesn't contain flaws due to a rushed
    and half-assed conversion. That makes it better right
    there. If I replicated the Mona Lisa but screwed up that
    famous smile, I doubt many people would pat me on the back
    and tell me I've gone DaVinci one better (although, in this
    "postmodern" world...), they'd acknowledge that I'd done a
    fine job but that I'd messed up toward the end. I didn't
    add anything new or innovate on the existing product, I
    had just skimped on time and detail.

    you know?

    GE
     
  9. Sudden_Death

    Sudden_Death Well-Known Member

    hmm, i didn't know about the third suit...

    was that the one that was in OB (more clothing)?


    <font color=red>PICCOLO</font color=red>
     
  10. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    I NEVER made a statement that something is a fact

    So when you started off with "Fact - blah blah blah" you weren't stating the blah's as facts? My mistake then. Maybe it's just one of those things, where people go around starting all their sentences with 'fact'.

    "Fact is, you're a knob-jockey". Hey, that's just my opinion. Anyway, whether you were stating facts, opinions or purely spinning bullshit is not really the issue here. I just didn't like the way you came across in your post (re: "is it that hard to think that maybe it got better?"), making it sound like we all had our heads stuck up our asses and didn't know wtf was going on. Please.

    BTW, have you even played Arcade TB at any length, if at all?

    I said, the DC could be considered better due to the changes...

    Actually, you said if the DC and Arcade versions been reversed, then almost everyone would see the Arcade version as inferior. Which is really a round-a-bout way of saying that the Arcade version (as it is now) is actually superior. Then you suggest that the Dreamcast version (as it is now) got better? Would you like some salt with that foot?

    if you woul get it through your thick skull that possibly some people enjoy the d.c one more, then you may be able to comprehend what I was saying in the beginning....

    Did you miss/not read/not understand the part where I said:

    <blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

    The FACT is, objectively speaking, the arcade version is better than the dreamcast version. Subjectively you might think otherwise, and you're entitled to, ...

    <hr></blockquote>

    So yes, I can accept that some people will enjoy/prefer the DC version. For some people the DC version is the only version they can enjoy. They don't know any better so they can't compare. Thanks for repeating my point anyway, even if you weren't conscious of doing so. Who's skull is thicker now?

    Fact is Myke, as much you may not want to deny it, your OPINION that the arcade version is better is just that - can you supply ANY concrete evidence to why the arcade version is better? If so, I am all eyes.

    GE has answered this beautifully. Thanks GE.

    __
    m y k e
    how ya gonna win when ya ain't right within?
     
  11. GodEater

    GodEater Well-Known Member

    hmm, i didn't know about the third suit...

    Taka's "naked" suit but now I'm wondering if that
    wasn't removed in TB? I haven't seen it forever.
    Rich? Is it still there?

    GE
     
  12. Shadowdean

    Shadowdean Well-Known Member

    OK...listen, this has dragged on long enough
    Fact {just cause you love it so much} I preorderd tb and have played it at many a great length. I did not have the luxury of doing so in the arcade due to the prohibitive costs.

    As far as Godeaters argument, while seemingly sound - there are a few flaws. Let me ask you this - was the originall version of doom the true version? No - it was moddified? Was the original version of TB the true version, or was it the tweaks that came afterwards? How about vf2? Was the first version the "true" version, or perhaps, harkening back the allogory of the cave, that just a mere refelction of what the true version is? Think for a moment...none of us know what is going on inside of Yu's head. Perhaps NONE of the versions are the true version, and the true version of VF will be it's final inception?
     
  13. Shadowdean

    Shadowdean Well-Known Member

    To godeater - at least you did address my question/argument with a thought out argument and I thank you for it. Myke, maybe you can take note - you can make a argument without profanity or name calling, cause it really does not put you in the best light.
     
  14. GodEater

    GodEater Well-Known Member

    Hey hey...let's drag this on just a little longer.

    first I'm going to come out and say that I play
    whichever version is closest to me at the time.
    DC or arcade, it's whatever I can get my hands
    on earliest (or whatever the majority will be
    playing that night).

    As far as Godeaters argument, while seemingly sound - there are a few flaws. Let me ask you this - was the originall version of doom the true version? No - it was moddified? Was the original version of TB the true version, or was it the tweaks that came afterwards? How about vf2? Was the first version the "true" version, or perhaps, harkening back the allogory of the cave, that just a mere refelction of what the true version is? Think for a moment...none of us know what is going on inside of Yu's head. Perhaps NONE of the versions are the true version, and the true version of VF will be it's final inception?

    I'm willing to concede the fact that no one knows
    what Yu Suzuki has planned and in the same
    manner willing to suspend the real until he makes
    that public but my point still stands.

    Given the example of platonic forms nothing Yu
    creates will be exactly like the idea of it. So
    in that way you're right; the real version still
    hasn't (and I say won't) achieved any viable
    physicality. however here's the problem with that
    argument. Suzuki-san didn't involve himself with
    DCTB, Genki did. and my Mona Lisa piece of fluff
    remains pertinent. The fact that the re-making
    of this particular piece of art fell out of the
    author's hands makes it less real to me. The
    original (signed and numbered) sits in Funland
    here in Toronto and in Rich's house.

    I'm not saying that more people can't appreciate
    and admire the original through the counterfeits
    as that is obviously the case. I had a friend in
    Residence who absolutely loved Monet. Not having the
    money to buy the originals she would purchase small
    posters of her favourites. Not many people can get
    to go the great museums that house wonderful works
    of art, fewer can get the works to visit them through
    purchasing them. The result will always be copy's
    made by a printing house and distributed for a fraction
    of a cost. But I think most people would have had a
    laugh if my friend had tried to pass her posters off
    as the real thing.

    you know?

    GE
     
  15. Shadowdean

    Shadowdean Well-Known Member

    I think that this is going on abit, but what the hell, your giving me a good argument. I think calling the d.c version; and relating it to, a counterfit, is a slippery sloap argument. It is a replica, not an exact copy of the original, with flaws and all. But are the differences flaws or not? Many people enjoy being able to pull of d.c only combos, cause it gives you more things that you can do. I think, as I said before, that this comes down to personal opinion
     
  16. clopin

    clopin Well-Known Member

    <blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

    I think that this is going on abit, but what the hell, your giving me a good argument. I think calling the d.c version; and relating it to, a counterfit, is a slippery sloap argument. It is a replica, not an exact copy of the original, with flaws and all. But are the differences flaws or not? Many people enjoy being able to pull of d.c only combos, cause it gives you more things that you can do. I think, as I said before, that this comes down to personal opinion

    <hr></blockquote>

    personal opinions? no.

    <blockquote>replica: an exact reproduction; a copy exact in all details</blockquote>if it is a replica, then it failed. there are conversion flaws. you go on to mention this, then reverse your position at the end say they are not flaws, but differences? that implies then that it is not trying to be a replica, thus, a counterfeit. last time i saw, the dc game had vf3tb on it, and you're trying to tell me that it's not trying to be like vf3tb? you just invalidated your entire argument. GE is not giving you a good argument. this argument is lame. give up.

    oh, and don't go off creating a new thread on the same subject. it's starting to piss me off as well.


    // clopin
    join #vfhome on the EFnet IRC network
     
  17. adamYUKI

    adamYUKI Well-Known Member

    PSN:
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    shadowrush:
    But are the differences flaws or not?

    I agree. While the graphics and sound of the DC version are clearly flawed when compared to the arcade, the gameplay differences can be enjoyable in their own way. If you are used to the arcade, then the differences can be annoying (but they don't have to be - as adjusting in general takes little work, IMO). Gameplay on the DC version doesn't have to be viewed as flawed if that is the only version one is used to (barring the whole issue of playing the game as Yu Suzuki INTENDED it - no one says that one MUST play VF3tb nowadays as Yu designed it). With this view the whole thing does become subjective (not graphics/sound issue as that is clearly obvious - the textures and poly models on DC version just aren't as good). Its like a slightly different version - with things added and taken away.

    People - just enjoy and train on whichever version you have access to! When time comes for a tournament, it shouldn't be too hard to adjust from one version to the other.



    <font color=red>ORA! ORA! ORA!</font color=red>

    <font color=white>adam</font color=white><font color=red>YUKI</font color=red>
     
  18. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    still there. i actually have the naked option set to "ng" as normal. i just like the third outfit better.

    --
    "A chem bla deshembla blurr fuh bli fouzh"
     
  19. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Let's all just play SambaDeAmigo...screw it.

    -sa
     
  20. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    Samba is fun!!!!!
     

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