Defense & Special Movement Training

defense & special movement training: BK__
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Hey all,… I have been training hard with defense lately and so I have been rambling about defense here and there on VFDC 0__0.. well, basically I wanted to make a compilation of defense methods in VF which will keep you safe without thiking you are at tight nitaku. The basis is to kill obscurity and random play, by covering yourself and being harder to hit nomatter what choice. But it’s pretty much a library thread you can refer to any time about discussed stratergies. I hope it can be of some use to players who don’t normally train defense, or players like me who use wolf & goh (or somebody else which demands tight defense). But you can pick and choose which applies most anyhow.

Thanks to Ragingsilver, you will need to refer to the movies in this file:
http://www.ragingsilver.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/vf/

(link updated~!!!)


ok, here we go.

1. Fuzzy guard from standing: [fuzzyguard.wmv
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~

This can only be done at -2 or below. Any higher and you cannot avoid the throw Option. Most characters who have a combo will not go higher than +2. some are even -2 where the choice game is played slightly differently. But against akira, aoi, sarah, kage etc, you can use the fuzzy guard to avoid an elbow or a throw, and stay safe. NOTE: wolf gets the same choice game, but his KS and PGS have a bigger window than standard throws, so the fuzzy guard wont work.



2. Fuzzy guard from crouching:
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This initially can be done at any safe disadvantage but you must be positioned at fully crouch, and then rise to standing. There are several factors which can put you in this situation, and the most common are these:

. after you have a blocked (or a safe low attack like goh’s ,+.
. after you get a mid attack blocked but recover low (i.e kage’s +
. after you hit yout opponent low, but remain at disadvantage (i.e aoi’s sweep on normal hit)

The main guessing game is that people play a 3-choice game of elbow, low throw, or high throw. High throw only plays a role of anticipating instant evade. Where as low throw plays the role of instant defend. Fuzzy guarding from crouch will keep you safe on all options, but there is one factor towards low throw which I will explain later.

(block) [low_P_safe.wmv

as seen In this vid you will avoid 2 choices. But there is something more interesting.

unsafe_low_P_low_throw.wmv.

by fuzzying after means that a low throw is now *guarenteed* on you. The reason is that the movement of the fuzzy guard has some frames of fullly crouch inside it. If you are at -4, and use more crouching frames to stand up, then you should be atleast -8 before you stand (correction?). But the timing is very difficult, and most of the time you will avoid low throw.

safe_low2.wmv
safe_low3.wmv

here shows 2 situations which will both leave you in the same position (-6). From here on it’s the same 3-taku as with . in most cases, only at low throw counterable people would call it 3-taku. But in these cases, there is still a guarenteed risk to low throw if you choose to fuzzy guard. Without fuzzy then it’s pure choice of attack, evade, or defend which still results you being at 3-taku anyway. As you can see, it’s important to look out for when you are at disadvantage after your hit, you need to take the same actions as if you had a move blocked. But the Fuzzy at -6 still works for the throw / and more importantly elbow game. Low throwing must be done instantly to be guaranteed, or else they miss.


safe_recover_low1.wmv

Here shows an example where the same -6 situation implies, but it’s actually a mid hit~!! Infact It’s really one of the reasons why people talk about this move. It means instant nitaku cannot be played here, it is safe and recovers low, so the fuzzy guard can be made. There are very few of these in VF, pai has one where she recovers back turned low I havent tested to see if you fuzzy on that, but I guess I see no reason why not, try it yourself.


Delay_throw.wmv

As you know, that instant response really cant be made against fuzzy guarding, so in order to beat opponent’s who fuzzy guard it, you need to anticipate it, or have another option prepared for it. The easiest thing to do is to delay something, as fuzzy guard is designed to react according to a flowchart, which must be done instantly. Nothing else needs to be expanded on this area, it’s your own logic.



3. ARE (all round evade)[ARE.wmv
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(blocked) ~ modyfied attack

This is the newest trick to be found, which can be done at atleast -5 or below. The objective is that you will avoid both an elbow or a throw at mid disadvantage without throw escapes. Because the only way to cancel a long evade is with crouch dash, you can use a crouch dash to instant attack, so your opponent cannot throw you, but if they attack you instead, then your evade command comes through instead. the same way it is registered with ETEG.


4. Boxstep [box_step.wmv
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--> --> --> / attack

Not demonstraited very well in this clip, box step is ideal at small disadvantage or in free space, it’s objective is to avoid a throw, with a backdash, and evade a long mid. For any delays then you cancel with CDG or you can block a low sweep.



NOTE SECTION: minami step: [minami step thread

by minami akira of japan. This concerntraites on setups and flexibility from a modifyable position (with akira in mind). actually it’s the basis of VF movement in it's purest form, completely stripped down. but i'd say more than anything it's for accuarate moving and instant setups.

Here is an example pattern of minami step:

-> -> -> -> -> -> -> -> -> -> -> -> ->

im only explain minami step so you can understand the next section:


5. BK fuzzy step training: [fuzzy_step2.wmv
---------------------------------

because the minami step is based around canceling movements with , it means the elements of defense can be cancelled into eachother to create a safer movement pattern. the objective is to stay very tight so you block moves at tight frame marks, and execute very short cancelling like a fuzzy guard. However, because you are are at no particular situation like -2 fuzzy guard, it’s hard to say you will always duck throws at the right time, but it’s mainly about being in the right position to make a choice without staying high or staying low for too long. Because around the space of -0, you should not be pressured by choice games!

Here is a basic pattern for example:

-> [very short] -> -> fuzzy to standing] -> -> -> -> -> [fuzzy to standing]

the end part is boxstep, and can be followed up by an attack or another guard cancel.

cycles are good for spacing and easy to follow up into another rise-from-crouch movement.

it also keeps you guarding often.

Suggested by Shang: to make things easier, 2 crouchdashes can be performed by , so you can repeat that pattern instead if you find it more useful~

with patterns like these, you will be rising from crouch to standing more rapidly and sharply leaving
not much opening so you are likely to block moves which come at you very quickly. you will also
be able to avoid throws which are loosely anticipated. Also be in a better position to block low
sweeps more often.

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5. Training diary: Quest mode
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This is some example of the stratergies used, it’s what I have been doing in quest mode for anybody who is interested, so I just saved some rounds where I made some progress. (Thanks again ragingsilver ^^).

1 round:
Example1.wmv
Example2.wmv
Example3.wmv
Example4.wmv

Full matches: (taken down but will be up soon)

http://www.ragingsilver.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/vf/match2.wmv http://www.ragingsilver.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/vf/match1.wmv

since Yosuke has been around the scene of japan and has been posting here lately, any technique that players use or discover from japan would be highly appreciated, if there is any im missing. There is also some room for discussion here, so thanks for participating.

END of post /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

nice, I'll have a read through this when I get some time /versus/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

Brilliant effort, BK. Very impressive. I will add to the discussion later on, but I just wanted to give you some kundos on this first.


Well done, and move to Ohio!

 

What program do you use to read the linked file?

 

it's a winrar file, like winzip. it has movies inside it where you can follow the post discriptions

http://www.rarlab.com/
http://www.download.com/3000-2250-10007677.html

2 places you can download from.


maddy, move ohio here¬!! /versus/images/graemlins/lol.gif

 

Thx BK.

/KiwE

 

i've been reading all these defensive techniques in VFDC and it's a bonus to see them in a visual form. now i know how this ARE thingy works, lol. thanks for sharing BK! /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

http://www.ragingsilver.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/vf/vf1.wmv
http://www.ragingsilver.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/vf/vf2.wmv

the 2 Quest mode matches which were taken down

 

"Pro-tip "

Omg fag.

 

jerky dont you own one of those toys?
get back to work!! /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

"jerky dont you own one of those toys?"

Excuse me... I own two thank you very much.

 

Re: Defense & Special Movement Training and the key to happiness

Did I hear someone say toys?

 

[ QUOTE ]
maddy said:
I will add to the discussion later on,


[/ QUOTE ]

come on man¬!!! /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

i need some practice¬! LOL

 

hello everyone. nice to meet you
I am writing one of Defense skills...? about ARE.
kind of! kind of Defense skills.....maybe lol

I guess I will not write well, so I am going to write with example!

please make this situation in your mind /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif I think this is a easy for example.

round is sometimes related to this skill with a opponent player's mind.

:your character is AKIRA
:your opponent character is KAGE


now, your AKIRA has only 30 HP.
:KAGE has 50 for it.

you guarded KAGE's , kage got -6 frame. However,..... how should I write? lol KAGE was sitting down? after ...OK! I guess Myke will help me! lol
then KAGE thought he would not be able to throw well because of KAGE's stance,so
KAGE used ARE or .
your AKIRA also guarded KAGE's

this time your AKIRA got very big chance. AKIRA have to use only (if this is EVO) ,+, or + (+). If you want to attack safely, you will use . If you want to kill him this time , you will use +. If you think KAGE will guard, you will use throwing like+

in addition, if this was round 4, one of whic you have. I think you will use (If this is EVO) or.....!! how about ()?
I don't know AKIRA's players' mind /versus/images/graemlins/tear.gif

I want to tell you this system that this situation KAGE can not avoid after ARE.
Do you know that all of VF charachers can not avoid after you failed to avoid? which is one of Vf systems.

ARE is useful and strong, but you should use it carefully if your opponent player have already known this system.

ARE is canceling failed avoidance, so which is one of failed avoidance.

BK__
this is one of my knowledge. if you know, sorry.
you should come the US... /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

by the way, I saw your wolf vs pai movie.
I enjoyed because I know wolf vs pai is really diffecult for wolf to win ...

I am not sure if this is correct or not, so If I have any mistake, please call me!

ohh... I want to use LAU's PPP... /versus/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

sitting down = tech crouching
also check the previous ARE thread for more examples, uses, discussion etc.
it's on the main page under system stuff, and linked in the thread..

 

good stuff~ !!

http://www.ragingsilver.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/vf/defensetraining.rar

i use ARE in this movie file ~ which in in my first post, im not sure if u downloaded, but if im using ARE wrongly or anything else wrongly here, then u can correct it since im sure you've seen ARE alot in japan~~ and used it on players~

http://www.ragingsilver.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/vf/vf1.wmv
http://www.ragingsilver.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/vf/vf2.wmv

also 2 quest mode matches of training~

the last UK league event had some movies http://www.ezoneonline.co.uk/rbvids/vf/ i lost in the finals, /versus/images/graemlins/tear.gif against PAI~!! lol -- i played badly for the most part i think. but the comentary is funny~! /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif do you know Ryan Hart? he just won the last tournament in london, but i couldnt attend, so i didnt see, lol

anyway, i hope to post up some more things in this thread, because i always train defense for my characters. i would have also liked to be in USA for evo2k3 and 2k4 which i missed, /versus/images/graemlins/tear.gif but i hope some day i can play VF in america (mainly ohio~!!), and i might be in japan again next year some time.

 

oh so sorry I could not find the previous ARE thread. could you put the thread URL?

by the way...
I am thinking about going to a city , which are New York or Ohai at the end of this December.
I think new york is a little better than ohai because of traveling time, but I have no information about both of them, so I have considered for several days.

I do not decide this plan yet, but I am sure I will go to either one of them.

staying dormitory for 10 days is really boring!I would rather go.

 

http://virtuafighter.com/versuscity/show...&PHPSESSID= there ya go Yosuke, no worries mate, and also by any chance do you mean Ohio? That is where I am from, let me know what you wanna know and myself or Jimmy will let ya know. If you ask him, he will give you my MSN handle or ask through PM.

 

I don't decied about my travel yet, but I will go . I saw a thread, which was written about myke's plan. he will go to new york on december 16th to 18th.... I might go to on 17th.

then I heard nobady could let me to stay home, so I might go to ohio this winter vacation.
bu the way, do you now where jimmy lives? I need to check ticket price..