Defensive/Offensive moves frames input Breakdown

Since i fail often my defensive move and my offensive move i have decide to go in training mode to figure out what's going on ^^

Before starting talk about frame, i will describre the input display mode

Number on the left is only about the neutral input. That means when you decide to don't touch your pad. Input on the right is about when you choose to input something



You read this up to down and left to right. This screenshot tell that i have input during 4 frames after that (next line) i choose to stay neutral during 56 frames and after that i unputed during 8 frames. After that i go neutral during 86 frames and inputed during 8 frames etc.

Now during this topic only the last two lines are important. In fact my last two choices to be exact. Let's go ^^


To do an up evade you have to input up and go neutral. Normal. The evade is validate only after you go neutral.

Here is an exemple when i hold during 4 frames and go neutral after that. When i take the screenshot it was 10 frames that i was in neutral just to show you Jean doing the move.


Here is an example when i hold during 8 frames. I still got an evade


Now i hold during 9 frames and Jean do nothing though i wait 10 frames in neutral before taking the screenshot


Conclusion : You can hold from 1f~8f and go neutral after to get an evade. But if you hold 9 frames or more you cannot do an evade

What about evade toward the screen ? input



With this next example i do an evade toward the screen and i hold during 5 frames



Here i hold 7frames and i still have an evade


Now i hold during 8 frames and Jean start to crouch instead of doing an evade. Notice that i choose to take the screenshot only 2 frames after i get neutral just to show you the crouch position. After 10 frames of neutral Jean stay in place without doing an evade


Conclusion :

Now for the down evade it's different, you can hold from 1f~7f and go neutral
If you hold until 8f and go neutral after your character will start to crouch and no evade for you. So evade toward the screen are more "harder" that toward the background. You have 1 more frame

Next post will be about an "exception" to this rule and also about offensive moves ^^

 

That must have taken quite a while to post with screen shots. Thanks

 

Great thread and awesome post, Cnul
I can't wait to see your findings on OM.

 

Nice to see people using the training mode to work stuff out.

 

Really great post! Thank you!

 

Thanks for discovering and reporting this. Looking forward to seeing what you discover regarding Offensive Movement.

 

Interesting findings here. Personally I find that my down evades fail more than my up evades.

 

Hi sorry for the delay. I was a little busy + i was trying to learn more on the game too.

To answer you Myke, i do the evades only in neutral position. But since you point that it could be very/more interesting to test in normal situation so with the buffer after a move or during blockstun !

Now the down evade is more strict that the up evade. I will show why.

Randomly i did this when i was trying to do an evade.



In the last screenshot i control Eileen (sorry)

What's going on on those screenshots ?
I can hold any direction, start walking and still get an up evade if my last input is (with the holding restrictions)

This information is important if you think you have to go neutral if you was walking before ( 8 way run). You don't need.

The last screenshot also "show" that you can buffer an evade more easily by holding or (during a recovery or blockstun) and just go to and go neutral after.
Notice that in doing this i manage to "score" a one frame holding. People who fear to mess up with the evade in holding too long can use this method. Of course in neutral play it's not very useful.

But when i tried to do this for a down evade, it's not working


Jean is crouching an do no evade after.


Here Eileen do nothing. Just before she was walking (8 way run)

So for down evade, you are forced to go neutral before attempting to do an evade. If you messup and get 2: or or , you are not allowed to do an evade anymore.

Why it's important ? People who play on pad can messup with the input for example. If your thumb slide on after you inputed (just before you go neutral), it's over

But Stick players can have a problem too. It's about the holding stuff. If you input a direction and try to go "full up" or "full down", you risk to hold the direction 8 frames most of the time. So if you wait to hit/feel the square/octogonal gate of your stick, you are holding too much the direction and that's why you can fail the evade. Pad player don't have those sort of problem since they don't "feel the need" to wait too long to go neutral.

Doing an evade is like doing a hop jump in King Of Fighters. It's really not the same feeling that in Soul Calibur V

Now about Offensive moves.
What we know is we have to do an evade and after that input P+K+G

Here it's working. I just need to go neutral during one frame


Of course it's the same for a down offensive move


Still working if i wait 7 frames after the neutral input


Still working if wait 11 frames after the neutral input


Finally not working after 12 frames. Notice i still get an evade of course.


Conclusion you can wait till 11 frames during a evade to validate the offensive move.
I think and hope it's work the same with the down evade ^^;;

Now some examples of failed offensive move

Here my error is i input P+K+G but i still holding at this moment so i get a jump attack. I released too late. One frame too late ?


Now what happen if i release one frame before ?
Here i get an evade instead of an offensive move. I released before hitting P+K+G but it's not enough, you really have to go "full" neutral before


Conclusion if you are too fast you can fail the offensive move

Hope those informations can help people who have trouble with those movements ^^

PS : I have the same type of information about crouch dash (frames/Screenshots). Crouch dash are not working like regular dash. They are more easy to do

 

http://virtuafighter.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/326189/2/Dear Mke%20-%20an%20esoteric

Had a look at the OM inputs with the pstick. Hope this helps.

Longest I could find was holding for 7F, then neutral for 11F then ++ still giving OM. (7.11)

Can hold for 8F and get DM, then ++ after 11F.
(8.11). (9.11, 8.12 and 7.12 won't work).

 

hmm, really didnt have a problem with evading to this extent.

unless we are talking about buffering evades after a block stun where it's difficult to tell exactly when you are recovered to netural.

or say like wall staggers, or stagger recoveries -

but good lab work to you sir, i must say