Definition of a "pig" character?

Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by Kageh, Feb 18, 2002.

  1. Kageh

    Kageh Active Member

    Howdy howdy howdy.

    Was reading through the forum and came across the term "pig" being used to describe Akira.

    Pretty easy to figure out it's just another term similiar to the likes of: cheap, powerful, too good, broken... etc.

    But I've never seen the term used anywhere else except by some of the players here. Anyway, I was just curious as to how and why peeps started using that particular word to describe overpowered characters. I generally think of a pig as being a dirty creature, not overpowering. ha. So why use that term?

    And what is up with the word "blatant" ? Reminds me of the west coast's fascination with the phrase "hella." ha ha. Just playin.

    Peace.
     
  2. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    This topic goes hand in hand with the recent "Akira respect" thread. But it's definitely a good concern and worthy of inquiry (given that some players have been going on and on about what a pig Akira is).

    My personal view is:
    *Akira is powerful and good
    *But Akira is not cheap by any means and is definitely not broken if you ask me.

    I personally think those that have been going on and on about the power of Akira are a small group of those who are just venting frustrations with the risk/reward factor of going against Akira directly. The main concern is the damage, followed by Akira's options.

    It's been discussed a lot, but I'm not at all convinced that Akira is broken in any way. His shoulder ram is very punishable and in Version C, it is now dodgable (or so I've heard). Many of his attacks save for some double handed attacks and a couple others are easily dodged. He's generally very throw counterable if a direct situation is pressed. And in such a situation, you at least have some control of the control/consequence aspect in your selection of throws.

    I think his middle weight status makes him a candidate for perhaps the most "generalized" combos if knowledge advantage is an issue.

    His straight-forwardness makes him capable of being handled quite well by indirect approaches to combat. Not to mention that he still seems to have issues when he's on the ground, making him a good victim to okizeme.

    The list could probably go on and on and even be more specific if one put their thoughts to it, but as far as I'm concerned, I haven't had much problems with Akira. If my concern was the big damage potential, I often put a lot of pressure on Akira with a nice safe offense that accounts for the low punch possibility at times and to me it works well because I'd rather receive a reversal or even some of his decent damage responses than his big guns. And as far as I'm concerned, as long as those big guns are in my head and I don't mind machi-ing up a bit, I can usually see them coming or at least prepare to prevent them.

    The only attack of his that ever seems to worry me is his double palm, to which if I get hit, I just have to remember to be weary of his Quick-Okizeme game (most commonly the b,f+P+K so far).

    Akira's got a few very powerful goods, but he also has a good number of openings in his defense.

    -Chanchai
     
  3. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I will reiterate what Chanchai just stated:

    Akira is not broken. He is powerful, but not over-powered. He is not a T4 Jin or a KOF98 Iori/Leona Orochi. In fact, I would be hardpressed to even identify a "most powerful" or "least powerful" character in VF4c.

    I mention this again and again only because I don't want people to get the wrong impression of the balance in VF4...it is incredibly balanced.
     
  4. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    pig was singlehandedly popularized by one guy.
    It's maybe more accurate than broken because people don't think of Akira like they think of broken SF characters ... he's just an asshole. So a more general derogatory term works.
     
  5. Kageh

    Kageh Active Member

    omfg... did you guys not read my post? Christ... just look at the title of the subject.

    Here's what I was hoping to get an answer for...

    "But I've never seen the term [pig] used anywhere else except by some of the players here. Anyway, I was just curious as to how and why peeps started using that particular word to describe overpowered characters. I generally think of a pig as being a dirty creature, not overpowering. ha. So why use that term? "

    I was just using Akira as an example. I didn't know I'd have to put up a fucking disclaimer stating that I didn't necessarily believe he was a "pig."

    EDIT: Thanks, Creed. Ha ha.
     
  6. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    Well, I thought you put up a definition of Pig that was "easy to figure out." So you sort of gave a definition of "pig." Given that definition, I felt "Pig" didn't apply to Akira. Because I don't feel he's broken or cheap, or whatever was implied in that definition. I never said that you thought Akira was a "pig." I just stated that I didn't think Akira was a pig and I felt I would offer support for that.

    Then Creed later came on to explain why "pig" was used.

    -Chanchai
     
  7. Plague

    Plague Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    plague-cwa
    XBL:
    HowBoutSmPLAGUE
    I've heard the pig thing before - as well as cheese (back in SF2CE days, my friend called Ken's dragon punch "the cheese punch"). But now I've also heard broken (as in broken SF player). What does broken mean (since it's not the same as pig)?

    Thank you
     
  8. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    My understanding is "broken" means that the character is "game breaking." Like, very cheap, to the extent of making it pointless to use any other character and what not. Probably also implying that the whole game gets drained into the same damn thing over and over to win, no matter what.

    -Chanchai
     
  9. Plague

    Plague Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    plague-cwa
    XBL:
    HowBoutSmPLAGUE
    Thanks for the broken info. Makes sense to me.

    My take on "pig"... Brutal, not elegant.

    Personal rambling: I like Akira /versus/images/icons/smile.gif ora Ora ORA!!
     
  10. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    > pig was singlehandedly popularized by one guy.

    guilty!
     
  11. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    > But Akira is not cheap by any means and is definitely not broken if you ask me.

    must..hold back.....flaming..fingers...of fury.... . .. .. .uuhhhnnnHRRGh!@12
     
  12. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I will reiterate this post - click <a target="_blank" href=http://virtuafighter.com/versuscity/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=versus&Number=19866&page=&view=&sb=&o=>here</a>. In fact I have much to add to it but I will spare you for now.

    Akira may not be broken in the apparent accepted definition of that word, but he is close to it. He is overpowered and reeks of cheese. In fact, I think most people would be easily pressed to identify him as the "most powerful" character in VF4c.

    I mention this again and again only because I don't want people to get the wrong impression of the balance in VF4...it is incredibly fucked.
     
  13. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    My post was directed at people in general, not really to you, Kageh; I apologize for the misclarification. Frankly, I couldn't care less how the word "pig" semantically came about.

    I posted to counter-balance the loud voice of a few people like Mr. Bungle (or is it a silent majority?). While we are still in the mood for clarification, the thread Bungle linked to pertains to Ver. B.

    How much of it is valid, or how much of it is just a function of frustration against certain opponents, I leave up to you, the general reader, to decide. At this point in time, I expect most experienced players have already made up their minds about the balance in the game.
     
  14. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    > While we are still in the mood for clarification, the thread Bungle linked to pertains to Ver. B.

    the only thing different is that the shrm is now P counterable by everyone. big fucking deal. the post is still valid as ever, and still doesn't cover everything that's obnoxious in vf4. way to clarify, guy.

    and jesus dude. you should give lessons in how to write like a pompous, anal retentive, ivy-league, handi-wipes-after-sex kind of person.
     
  15. imf

    imf Well-Known Member

    Hey Bungle, have you ever played any other fighting games? 'Cause if you don't like the balance in VF then I'd like to know what you're used to...?? If there's something better please stop holding out on us. ^_^

    If Akira is soo strong then why wasn't there an Akira player in the top three at the Japanese Nationals? Didn't someone tell them?

    Sorry, just curious.
     
  16. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    > have you ever played any other fighting games?

    nope.

    have you ever played vf2 or vf3tb? that's what i'm used to, and i think both of those games got it right, in terms of balance - and they also had sane risk to reward ratios. play those for a while, then come back to vf4. vf4 is spazzfest, just GET THE MC AND WIN THE GAME!

    > why wasn't there an Akira player in the top three at the Japanese Nationals

    because that other pig, jacky, was there =)
     
  17. Mirkan

    Mirkan Well-Known Member

    I think it's a matter of who you yourself are playing, and how.

    Some characters seem to have an advantage over others, be it counters, speed, power. If you were to play Lau against a Kage, the difference wouldn't be so obvious, but if you play a Jacky against an Akira, you could be in for a bashing.

    I play an intermediate Jacky, and my friend plays Akira, Pai and Lion. I'd say he's just about as good with any of them, but when he picks Akira, I'm in trouble. His block breaker, his fast elbows, counters and throws.. There's just something to whack me whatever I try to do. So naturally, I think his Akira is a pig. =D

    So, IMO, much of it lies in how you play and who you play. Scissors and stones, scissors and stones my friend =)

    As for VF4, as I think Mr Bungle tried to point out in his own sorta bitter way, the whole improved float system is kinda cheap in itself.

    * I reserve myself for a lack of knowledge to some degree. If there are any errors in the FACTS of this post, I'm truly sorry =)
     
  18. LAU Abuser

    LAU Abuser Well-Known Member

    Wats all that PIG abt huh? Lousy ppl like you who couldn't handle great opponents start calling PIG here PIG there. Someday when u become an expert, others will start calling your character PIG.
    SF champion addition has many pig characters. Guile, Ken Ryu n (Zangiff??? Punch FC throw?)
    KOF 96 Iori HCF+P>heavy punch>HCF+P
    97 Special Iori, Chris, Leona, Robert. R they Pigs?
    98 Leona, Iori, Ryo, Special Yashiro.

    Quit calling PIGS.

    Little Piggy SPoDs...
    [​IMG]
     
  19. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    Lau Abuser, Mirkan: please read a post before clicking the reply button. I know you're eager to reply to every thread, but this poster was merely asking why VFers use the slang term 'pig' and where the term came from. He wasn't asking for your opinions on what's cheap and what's not.

    Also, he already acknowledged that the question had been answered. So no need for your two cents.

    And beyond that a few others covered 'cheap vs. not cheap'. In this thread and others.

    Have a nice day.
     
  20. Mirkan

    Mirkan Well-Known Member

    I apologize for the misunderstanding. The topic however, read "definition of a "pig" character?"

    So I simply defined my view of a pig character.

    I see your concern though, thank you for the clarification.

    ..And a nice day to you too! /versus/images/icons/smile.gif
     

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