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Distance Affects the Speed of Throws?

Discussion in 'Dojo' started by Vencabot, Jun 29, 2012.

  1. Vencabot

    Vencabot Well-Known Member

    Pai's 6P leaves her at -4 when blocked, but she can fuzzy under a follow-up throw. VFNumbers verified that Lei-Fei's Doku P+K leaves him at -4, but he can fuzzy after it to evade throws.

    Both throws push the opponent slightly away, and neither attack can be fuzzied afterward when the opponent's back is against the wall when the attack goes off (they can't be pushed away), as Kamais_Ookin confirmed during the discussion.

    This is pretty interesting, I think, and I haven't read this anywhere so far (although maybe it has been posted). I assumed that a throw would land on the same frame regardless of whether the fighters were nose-to-nose or with a few feet between them.

    As a follow-up, I'm curious if anybody can confirm for me that 2G crouches faster than 2 alone. If I set a dummy to block and throw, I can use Pai's 6P and then, as stated above, crouch the throw with 2G (fuzzy). However, if I just hold 2, it catches me during my crouch animation. What's up with that?

    Thanks, VFDC!

  2. Mlai

    Mlai Well-Known Member

    I am 90% positive that 2G crouches faster than 2 alone, in VF4evo. Because I clearly remember reading that trivia in some kind of magazine or web page, while "studying" VF4evo. I never studied such frame minutiae in any other 3D fighter franchise so I can't be thinking about any other game.

    Maybe it was even mentioned in the VF4evo tutorial mode??
  3. noodalls

    noodalls Well-Known Member Bronze Supporter

    I couldn't find any difference between [2] and [2][G]
  4. Vencabot

    Vencabot Well-Known Member

    @noodalls Could you try taking Pai into the Dojo? I had the dummy set to Guard-an-attack-then-throw, and I attacked it with 6P.

    If I held down, I'd get caught by its throw during my crouch animation. If I held 2G, I ducked under its throw. Strange.

    @Mlai I loved the tutorial mode in EVO, but my memory is notoriously bad, haha. I've read a lot about VF5/FS's system, and I just find it weird that I haven't read anything about 2G being faster or that you can fuzzy straight down under throws at -4 only if you're a few steps away.

  5. noodalls

    noodalls Well-Known Member Bronze Supporter

  6. Vencabot

    Vencabot Well-Known Member

    @noodalls That's interesting, but can you explain the phenomenon that I was experiencing, then? It's easy to replicate; just take Pai to the Dojo and set the dummy to Guard and Counter-Attack 4, which causes the dummy to always throw at frame 0 after a guard.

    Poke it with 6P, which leaves Pai at a -4 disadvantage. If you hold 2 (down), Pai will get thrown by the dummy. If you hold 2G, you duck the throw. Doesn't it seem reasonable, then, to assume that 2G ducks faster than 2? I don't understand. What's happening in this situation?

  7. noodalls

    noodalls Well-Known Member Bronze Supporter

    I took Pai vs Wolf in practice mode.

    After [6][P] guarded, Wolf set to throw, up close, I can get hit by throws while doing either [2] or [2][G].

    If I space it out, I can duck throws with either [2] or [2][G].

    I would think there's a slightly different size hitbox between the two states. Just eyeballing Pai, her front hand is a lot further forward in neutral versus guarding.

    Also look at the difference in spacing you can do this at in open versus closed stance. In open stances it's a lot easier to hit [6][P] from close and still duck (with either method).
  8. akai

    akai Moderator Staff Member Bronze Supporter

    Akai JC
    I tried it training mode with detailed info displayed.
    [6][P] block close range, at -4 frames crouching by [​IMG][G] or [​IMG], the throw will connect with both methods of crouching. Crouching takes 7 frames.

    At a distance and at -4 frames from [6][P], both [​IMG][G] or [​IMG] I was able to avoid wolf's throw but not pai's throws. This likely indicates it is an animation (hit box related). At a distance that also make my [6][P] hit at a later active frame (-3 now) you can duck with both methods.
  9. Vencabot

    Vencabot Well-Known Member

    Thank you, both; that was kind of what I was curious about. My only two theories were that 2G crouched faster or that Pai's guard shrunk her hit-box slightly, but someone in the shoutbox mentioned that having guard shrink your hitbox would be unusual, and, also, at the same range (post 6P), I would get thrown if I just held G. So, if it's hitbox-related, it must be that 2G is affected (slightly shrunken hit-box), where-as G and 2 on their own are not.

    By the way, I was testing with Pai vs Pai. Also, when I say, "hitbox," I'm referring to the box around a character within which they'll be hit. I understand that some people call this the "hurtbox" and the aura around attacks that GIVE damage the "hitbox."

    So, with noodalls testing in particular, I guess that it's safe to say that 2G does ~not~ crouch faster than 2, but I guess that Pai's (and probably other characters') 2G is slightly more receded than her 2 alone. Interesting.

    I wish that I had started my own thread for this, now, haha. Thanks so much.


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