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Diverse AI in Virtua Fighter

Discussion in 'General' started by masterpo, Dec 12, 2020.

  1. masterpo

    masterpo VF Martial Artist Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    lastmonk
    For the last couple of days I've been comparing all of the AI's in the versions of Virtua Fighter that I have:

    • VF4
    • VF4 EVO
    • VF5
    • VF5FS

    Although the AI is not perfect, its extremely diverse and offers a wide range of challenge and enjoyment. There is a sufficient amount of diversity and variety in the AI that can keep one fairly strong in the fundamentals of the game. Of course the AI is not as challenging as highly skilled human players (e.g The AI won't play mind games, or adapt) But the AI can be stronger, more varied and diverse than beginners, and many intermediate players:ROTFL: So its a good training tool, and warm up tool for those who want to keep their competitive game fundamentals strong.

    And for those who just play VF casually and in single player mode, the AI is awesome , rewarding and enjoyable. AM2 put a lot of thought in to the design of the various AIs in Virtua Fighter and a player can find every thing from AI Spamming, to classic Combos when facing the AI, not to mention the AI costume customization. There are some really nice looks in the AI ranks.

    Looking at the relatively limited AI in Tekken, and DOA, just makes me appreciate the AI masterpieces that are found in the Virtua Fighter games. While the Virtua Fighter AI can prepare you to fight against moderately skill human player. Tekken's and DOA's AI is just not up to the task. The AI in Tekken and DOA is purely for entertainment purposes (at least in my opinion) It has only training value at the beginning, and early intermediate stage of play.

    I hope that Virtua Fighter X e-sports builds on the high quality of AI design that can be found across the Virtua Fighter games. Maybe AM2 could add mind games and adaptability to the AI. The AI in Virtua Fighter is not often talked about, but its best in its class.

    • VF has a superior fighting engine.
    • VF has a diverse roster of fighting styles and characters
    • VF has beautiful stages and graphics
    • VF has the best and most diverse AI found in any 3D Fighting Arcade game
     
    beanboy and RawrCookie like this.
  2. beanboy

    beanboy Well-Known Member

    Hopefully they don't make the AI too smart, otherwise that will make the cpu frustrating to fight against.:p
     
  3. Superspacehero

    Superspacehero Well-Known Member

    They could make the ai revolutionary. Lets say that the AI copy your fightingstyle. it detects your pattern and style, and how you adapt your style to certain playstyle. The next generation cpu could perhaps calculate all that. You can then upload your ai, so othe people could play against you. you could have Ai tournaments as well based on real player data,so america, europe and japan could have AI tournaments.

    You could create a satisfying singplayer experience where you go from arcade to arcade and meet these lifelike AI of opponents like homestay, fuudo and other japnese pro players.

    If the ai are perfect copies, that would render onlineplay with lag almost a worse experience when you can play an almost exact AI with zero lag.

    This would make virtua fighter forever timeless and offer endless enjoyment. But i will keep dreaming on.
     
  4. beanboy

    beanboy Well-Known Member

    @Superspacehero
    They did something like that in VF4's Quest mode. Travel to virtual arcades and fight cpu opponents, that are modelled after real VF players. It was a really interesting concept, and it helped me learn to play VF4 better.

    But unfortunately after VF4, sega hasn't really expanded on it.:confused:
     
  5. Superspacehero

    Superspacehero Well-Known Member


    ohh yeah i know, thats where i got the inspiration from. Well i heard they havnt expanded on it, since they dont want make the console version too good, so that it harms the arcade business.

    Sega may focus on the console version if the arcades are suspended during corona.
     
  6. ZBEP

    ZBEP Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    ZBEP
    I'm pretty sure the VF4EVO AI in quest mode could at least somewhat adapt. It's simple, like, if you do one thing over and over, it will get hit a few times and then use some kind of a hard counter, unlike, for example, tekken's AI, which eats jabs for days even in 7. The two exploits i found is that the AI crouches a lot, and isn't really aware of the stage. But these aren't like bix exploits, they just give you something to work with. It's still hard lol
     
  7. RawrCookie

    RawrCookie Well-Known Member

    Technically, it is possible that AI can be programmed to adapt players's comobs, reactions, or to focus in avoiding & suppressing a particular player fighting style if they are repeatedly using many throws, certain hits, combo starters ect or even act in randomized way in some moments.

    But this will require a more effort to be done by developers to achieve this level of AI/CPU and they probably will view is as something over limit. But primarily, top rank AI are programmed in strict "righteous" logical chain in response that the player at that time and level will be skilled enough to take every chance or weak point to beat the AI. Unlike human players, even the skilled ones are prone to mistake or inevitable react in illogical way under pressure, oversight moments, delay response and late button timing, randomness, tiring ect so this can be an advantage for AI over humans to some extent.

    As for "mind playing" AI, it depends mostly in the knowledge of the player if they gonna be tricked or not in reading their opponent style, also some characters fighting styles are already tricky by default.

    In Resident evil 4 difficulty system, it was dynamic adjusting system that reflects on your performance. If you get killed more often the aggressiveness and the number of zombies reduced severely, and vice-versa if you performed better. I imagine how it will be if this is translated into VF, not to make sure you will beat the AI or pass, but to adapt your performance and challenge you more.

    I remember fighting VF4EVO CPUs in quest mode, AM2 studio has made sure to put two levels of difficulty, easy difficulty for beginners or casuals and original standard difficulty. This was applied to all AI even the top rank ones. As much they are the best competitive AI i ever seen in fighting games, but they are still pretty much predictable and repetitive.


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    Last edited: Apr 9, 2021
  8. beanboy

    beanboy Well-Known Member

    Fighting games that read all of your inputs, and immediately react and counter attack perfectly everytime is cheap AI. Those old programmers, are known to have deliberately programmed AI in fighting games like that, to make money. Some good examples of this, are Mortal Kombat 2, stinky Kaiser Knuckle, Fatal Fury Real Bout, and those annoying SNK bosses, seen in KOF and other snk fighting games. I feel sorry for those kids in the 90's, who spent $20 in tokens, trying to beat one character, or boss character.:confused:

    However the AI reading your inputs, can be programmed to make mistakes like humans, and make a human vs. cpu battle seem legit. But greedy game companies in the 90's, would rather make cheap button reading AI, that cheats and breaks rules, just to get people to spend alot of money, trying to beat their fighting games.:confused:

    I think that is why I like the AI in VF4 and Soul Calibur 1 alot more, than the AI in other fighting games.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2021

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