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do u abuse D+P??

Discussion in 'General' started by TONY_T, Feb 22, 2002.

  1. gaishou

    gaishou Well-Known Member

    why is lp frowned upon in tekken?? because it stops dumbass 10 hit mash strings or because people lose legitimately to it? seriously, if its not a glitch, then people need to stop whining about it and ADAPT to it. even in vf it is a useful tactic ALONG with lk........so DEAL.........
     
  2. Blondie

    Blondie Well-Known Member

    What? LP in tekken is useful but you cant get an automatic throw after a Counter LP in tekken nor do you get the kind of frame advantage like you do in VF. Hey, Lp has its place sometimes in tekken but 10 strings can be broken with low parries and hard ass rising moves. Are you a ten hitter gaishou? I'm not whining about low punch at all. If you want to do it fine, but when I own you for doing it hopefully you'll change your game tactics to a little more depth other than lping after every big move. I welcome Lp's!!!..................now /versus/images/icons/wink.gif
     
  3. imf

    imf Well-Known Member

    Alright gaishou, calm down, take a deep breath and try to remove Unc's dick from your ass. You're starting to like it too much.

    As far as TTT goes do you even know how to tag cancel? Why you talking shit to me? I'll play ya anytime.
     
  4. gaishou

    gaishou Well-Known Member

    Blone_one wa okama ja nai kedo, shigoto de gei booi to shite hataraite’run da...........

    IMF and blonde_one,

    was my comment directed at you both directly?? no...it was directed at the whole thread. was i talking shit to you? no. dont take things so 'personally'......so goddam serious about something so petty..........i've seen and used lp in TEKKEN to break strings that mashers do use along with rising attacks. i think jin had quite a few.......i just dont see why people are so against lp in vf is all. if its in the game, use it is how i feel.
     
  5. imf

    imf Well-Known Member

    Technically you did reply to me. And said:

    "why is lp frowned upon in tekken?? because it stops dumbass 10 hit mash strings or because people lose legitimately to it? seriously, if its not a glitch, then people need to stop whining about it and ADAPT to it. even in vf it is a useful tactic ALONG with lk........so DEAL......... "

    see how that looks?

    You don't seem to know what Tony_T was talking about. You see in TTT d+1 is considered cowardly at high level play. It doesn't get you any substantial offensive initiative, it just bogs down the fight. In VF4 it can be a deadly tool. But, IMO it takes less skill and understanding to rely on it as your main game.
     
  6. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    This is just out of my curiousity and not a personal remark, so just take it as a moment for constructive discussion (though most of this thread has been interesting to me).

    I thought TTT toned down the low punch by making it throw-interrruptable. As far as I know, I never knew the low punch was frowned upon in TTT mainly because of this property. I heard more complaints about low kick than low punch, though low kick certainly has its vulnerabilities. Back to the low punch, I heard it was mainly in T3 where people got frustrated because it was being used heavily, but even then, as far as I know, it didn't seem so bad.

    I'll save my thoughts on low punch and jab in Tekken 4 for another thread, because I'd rather hear a response regarding the low punch in TTT and T3.

    Regarding low punches in VF4, I personally have no problem with them. They can be very frustrating, I'll admit, but guessing games are still guessing games (and are not just limited to attack level) and good prediction and spacing can come a long way in handling them and even making the matches, in my eyes, look cool.

    -Chanchai
     
  7. Blondie

    Blondie Well-Known Member

    "WORD" brother chanchai!! =), I agree with you. I think me and IMF were getting the vibe as to why Tony started this thread. See Tony is a World renouned TTT player. And while I play TTT he is in a sense TTT's kyasao or mukky. He's a badass at TTT, is my point. He started this thread cause he is feeling that the lp is Very Abusable. While I was there at one point, I know how he feels starting out and getting frustrated with the lp. I'm just stating that he'll get used to it. As it stands now, you VF guys don't want to lose Tony as a VFer, he's a badass and probably can become one of the greats. Australia's finest. I'm just posting to let him know and possibly help him deal with "abusable lp".

    Back to TTT lp's. While in T3 lp was frowned upon and also TTT being virtually the same style game. I don't think the lp had been toned down. At high level play the lp="OH MY GOD I"M GETTING MY ASSED KICKED AND I WANT TO PROLONG THE MATCH AND POSSIBLY STOP THIS GUYS MOMENTUM". lp in T3 and TTT is a cowards way out of an ass beating. same in VF. I feel while VF4 has the lp and one can argue that since its there why don't you just abuse it. The way I feel is that there is a place for every move and in my opinion lp is for cowards that are afraid of putting it on the line, unsure, intimidated, and afraid to take a big move. If your going to fight, then fight, be technical, look stylish, have some goddam balls. I can understand one or two hits to the finish a lp might be more common and that doesn't bother me, but LP is a cowards tool if used as a offensive weapon.
     
  8. ken

    ken Well-Known Member

    Its so damn obvious... "d+p" has:

    1.weak power
    *2.fast recovery, though its the same speed as an elbow
    *3.short range
    4.you duck during and after execution
    *5.you avoid high attacks
    6.you can throw upon MC
    *7.its a linear attack
    8.it attacks low for characters and low* for others. low* mean it can be blocked mid or low.
    *9.throws can be escaped. Multi-throw escape is a powerful skill.

    Its certainly a pretty good attack at certain conditions. Emphasis on certain conditions. There are times that it'll work and times that it won't. What players need to understand is when its their turn to attack and whether they have iniative or not.

    Its much easier to attack than defend, but defense is what wins in the end. "d+p" clearly is a defensive weapon, and a powerful one at that. Its an essential defensive skill, but its not the only defensive skill.

    With any attack its always a gamble, next time you get d+p MC and thrown, ask yourself where you were attacking without iniative?
     
  9. Yupa

    Yupa Well-Known Member

    The way I feel is that there is a place for every move and in my opinion lp is for cowards that are afraid of putting it on the line, unsure, intimidated, and afraid to take a big move. If your going to fight, then fight, be technical, look stylish, have some goddam balls. I can understand one or two hits to the finish a lp might be more common and that doesn't bother me, but LP is a cowards tool if used as a offensive weapon.

    This reeks of "scrub mentality." By that I mean setting up rules in your own mind or social gaming group on how a game should be played. It's no different than calling ring outs cheap IMHO.
     
  10. LittleWild

    LittleWild Well-Known Member

    Some comments:

    2. LP is faster than elbows.
    6. The throw is not confirmed.
     
  11. Genie47

    Genie47 Well-Known Member

    <blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

    In VF4 it can be a deadly tool. But, IMO it takes less skill and understanding to rely on it as your main game.

    <hr></blockquote>

    Deadly to abuser as far as I know. d+P abusers get abused in Japan. Lau Abuser reports himself getting his assed kicked in Tokyo.

    You can use it in the game. Using it as a defensive and offensive option is fine. Abusing would tantamount to being predictable. People will predict when you will d+P and will make short work of your efforts.
     
  12. LittleWild

    LittleWild Well-Known Member

    I would consider that as house rules among some VFers. As long as every one in the group think it is ok to play according to the house rules, I think it is fine. But don't expect everyone to confrom to it. You are bound to meet someone who abuse LP or use RO as a method to win.
     
  13. Genie47

    Genie47 Well-Known Member

    Come to think of it. Players who RO'd opponents are rather tactical players. The situation presented it and they took advantage of it. Many of us do fight without a sense of environmental or tactical awareness. Players who fought with that awareness will do ROs. I stress the word awareness. It is not the same as single-mindedness for ROs.
     
  14. Yupa

    Yupa Well-Known Member

    Setting up "house rules" will ultimately stunt the growth of everyones game who abides by them. See Genie's post above. Learn how to deal with it or exploit it, if you prefer. Become a better player overall...
     
  15. Blondie

    Blondie Well-Known Member

    Thats a brave statement my man. "Scrub Mentality?" While you may think that is Scrub Mentality, I find it to be quite different. If this were a rule of mine then I would think that being against lp would make me more efficient with alternative moves and setups. And not make me look Scrubby. Just my opinion. I won't go as far as to say thats one of the dumbest things I've seen you post yupa, but "BRAVE". I'll give you that.

    P.S.-This has nothing to do with "RING OUTS". I like there to be a actual fighting arena, unlike TTT or T3.
     
  16. ken

    ken Well-Known Member

    Yeah... house rules apply to an extent. Casual gaming on say PS2 should be played according to the agenda be that being fun or competing, depending on the crowd and level of competition. In the arcade when money is involved then things get little more serious.

    correction: Elbow will interrupt the second "d+P" if first is blocked.

    My main point is the effectiveness of "d+P" can be controlled by both players. Range, dodging and initiative is within everyones grasp. Using LP is a gamble as there is risk involved with using it. Just as there is risk with using particular risks when doing certain moves within LP range.

    LP is not the only way to win a game. Nor does it guarantee victory. Knowing how to defeat LP and using LP strategies is important in VF.

    RO is not cheap. Its an option and a strategy. There are strategies for arena with walls and without walls. A strategy improves chances of success, but there is still the chance of failure. Just in case you didn't notice, VF is a 3D game.

    Rules of the game is to defeat the opponent within the allocated time. Its up to the individual to decide on how to win/lose. There is more to VF than just "d+P".

    You should use "d+P" abusers to practice your anti-LP tactics. When you finally can defeat LP what is the opponent going to do next?
     
  17. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    I'm not trying to make this a fence of two sides... But to a good degree, I agree with Yupa.

    "Scrub Mentality" can be interpreted as a harsh way of putting it, and thus you don't see me labeling stuff like "anti-lp sentiments" as "scrub mentality." But I honestly believe that to be better, you have to prepare for "the worst," get over any hinderances or annoyances, and move on.

    I do think that people who whore low punch with a passion and NOTHING ELSE are doing themselves a disservice by getting themselves stuck in a rut. They'll get beat for being predictable eventually. But I also feel that people who try to control the amount of low punches are being as restrictive as people who tried to enforce "no throwing" rules in the Street Fighter 2 days.

    Low punches are merely a means to an end, and as far as I can tell, you get punished by low punches when you're being too aggressive or your opponent knows how to use them properly. There is a range where low punch is frustrating, and outside of that range it falls under a consideration for something that could potentially interrupt your attempt to close a distance or attack. I say using that knowledge and applying it properly is one way to deal with the low punch (in other words, applying range and frequency of attacks carefully). There are much more direct means of handling low punches depending on the character.

    Anyways, I feel that learning BOTH to USE and to HANDLE Low Punches is vital in VF4 and people should use low punch whores as an opportunity target to learn how to handle the low punch. I honestly encourage even beginners to use low punch, simply because it's one of the easier ways to feel comfortable setting up a flowchart and learning the flow of the game once initiative is obtained. The risk is that they get stuck and do nothing but low punch (in which case I'll easily beat them usually in my experience), but the benefit is that they learn much more about the engine and know a "standard tool" that can help them get the space and ease-away-from-pressure they may need in some situations.

    Call me way optimistic if you want, but I honestly believe that blaming an aspect of the game is a "weak" way of handling the situation. As long as I am competitive in a game, my goal is to deal with oncoming situations, even if some of them have "game breaking" properties. But low punch is far from game breaking, if anything, it does a good job of creating careful consideration of pacing, distance, and attack frequency. To me, this is what I love about VF.

    -Chanchai
     
  18. Blondie

    Blondie Well-Known Member

    Yes Chanchai I do agree with you once again. I personally don't have a vandetta against the lp anymore. After many days of practice I found that lp is actually a gift. See here in Fl. most players at rockies are predictable. So now that I know how to stop the lp whorring, I just want to see the Fl. guys excel. Some people only give a game a certain perspective and when that game doesn't fit into that perspective anymore "They quit". While I don't like completely beating a new players ass for lping, I try to somewhat show them the light of other moves and such. So in a sense this is why I'm against lp. I defintelely recognize it as useful, and use it efficiently. There is a time and place for every move and the lp is definetely a defensive weapon. I'm a jacky player at heart so flashy stuff and Nasty setups is in my nature. Lp is a Beginners tool and while Fl. has many beginners we're trying to move up the ladder so to speak and I don't want anybody around here getting the idea that lp is "GOD" and that they should surround there game with it. goodnight I'm unbelievably tired.
     
  19. SummAh

    SummAh Well-Known Member

    "Lp is a Beginners tool"

    Blondie..this is such a UNTRUE statement.
    There's a skill in using Low p correctly n punishing Low p accordingly.
     
  20. TONY_T

    TONY_T Active Member

    Well im very much a begginer and yes i do use the D+P..

    in tekken if someone abused D+P on me id be able to predict it and retaliate with a quick backdash into launcher, but in VF4 this seems very hard cos most of VF4 launchers (that i have found with the characters i use) are either to slow or have no range, is there something im missing? the reason i started this thread was because i wanted to know more ways on how to beat this move, i guess i should have been more specific in the characters i play.. well ill be more specific now, what do you do with Lau after blocking a D+P and you know your opponent is gonna throw or retaliate with a move? what can he do that might launch your opponent for a combo?? also same with Lei, what can he do?
     

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