Easy to Learn, Hard to Master?

Hey guys, saw a discussion on GAF about which characters are easy to learn and I thought I'd post my opinions here (can't seem to get an account registered there, grr...and to think I was one of the original members when the forum was at Gaming Age...what's up Jim Cordeira):

DEGREE OF DIFFICULTY TO LEARN/MASTER
Akira Yuki - Medium/Low
Aoi Umenokouji - Low/High
Brad Burns - High/Medium
Eileen - High/High
El Blaze - Medium/Medium
Goh Hinogami - Low/Medium
Jacky Bryant - Low/Low
Jeffry McWild - Low/Medium
Kage-Maru - Medium/Low
Lau Chan - Low/Medium
Lei-Fei - High/High
Lion Rafale - Low/Low
Pai Chan - Low/Low
Sarah Bryant - Medium/High
Shun Di - High/Medium
Vanessa Lewis - Medium/High
Wolf Hawkfield - Low/Medium

Feel free to disagree or comment!

 

I think its funny we agree on Akira there. Most of the time you keep on hearing he's so hard to learn and/or master. But in my experience his basic moveset is really easy to get to grips with.

I'd class Vane as med/med though. Most (all?) of her moves are rather straightforward in their use and easy to execute. Mixing them up while keeping every option in mind at all times is the hardest part I think.

Lei is probably a bit easier to pick up (I think we like to pretend he isn't), as long as you take all the stance stuff in stride its not hard at all. You just need to avoid a few pitfalls. I'd say medium to learn there.

Maybe Sarah can be upgraded to very hard to master? Every time I see her being used properly I really don't get how they pull it together. Maybe that's just me. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Picking up Wolf is possibly a tad harder as a lot of his moves require a better understanding of where you're going. I'm on the fence myself on this one, since using mid/throw mixups is really all you need early on.

 

I think Lei Fei is pretty hard to learn, but really easy to master. Technically, he's pretty hard to pick up and learn the essentials. Once you have it down though, LeiFei's game is pretty basic without much variation. Compared to other characters like Goh who are more reliant on fundamentals to break down the opponent's defense, LeiFei is much easier to master, just really hard to learn...

 

Why is Eileen so hard to master..? I understand to learn - lot of possibilities and so. But why that master?

 

Akira Yuki - Medium/MED
Aoi Umenokouji - MED/high
Brad Burns - LOW/HIGH
Eileen - MED/LOW
El Blaze - LOW/HIGH
Goh Hinogami - MED/MED
Jacky Bryant - MED/MED
Jeffry McWild - LOW/HIGH
Kage-Maru - MED/MED
Lau Chan - MED/LOW
Lei-Fei - HIGH/MED
Lion Rafale - MED/HIGH
Pai Chan - MED/Low
Sarah Bryant - MED/MED
Shun Di - MED/LOW
Vanessa Lewis - HIGH/MED
Wolf Hawkfield - HIGH/MED

 

Brad- HIGH/HIGH
from smoking all that la-la.
Yay yay!

 

Yo, this is DancingFighterG. I think Brad has a medium difficutly and a high master level. I'm new to VF but from my experience Brad has medium learning curve due to application of his stance during fights but he will definilty be hard to master.

As for Shun, meduim for learning and for master I would say high due to the application of all his stances.

I always believe that stance characters are hard to master!!

 

Interesting breakdown. Love the list.

 

scoff

id rate blaze at medium/high since he is by far the worst character in the game.

 

I had put Eileen as High/High partly due to what seems like a weird movelist/stance. However, after studying her movelist a bit more I don't think she's hard to master. If anything in a sense her continuation moves are simply like a stance, except that you don't have to actually go into a stance to execute them only after certain moves. From that perspective, I think she's really more High/Low -- hard to learn, easy to master.

 

looks lik pai is the newb stick.........

kage being med/low is agreeable

 

I am curious who we are applying this scale to. The degree of difficulty to learn/master for anyone (which pretty much implies beginners willing to really learn VF)? Or for experienced players who know what they are doing, but are trying out a new character? I will assume the former.

I would probably put Lion as Low/Med.

He is easy to pickup and play, especially on the "general fighting game player" level where his animations are awkward for people to deal with and you can land some decent stuff. At that level, he will easily outpoke simply on animation, but his attacks are slower than they look (but some have evasive properties), and much more counterable than they seem.

Where I argue he's not a Low to master (though probably not really a high either) is the risk involved in a lot of his attacks, even some of the ones that seem like safe pokes are highly counterable. Since 4, he's been able to maximize damage decently at the cost of decent risk.

VF5's engine has probably made him easier to master than earlier entries in the series, but he still telegraphs his range game and he's not necessarily the best poker imo (just the most annoying).

I wouldn't put him as a high because he does have decent mixups with his low attacks being the only real risky aspects (good throw/med mixup is great). And he's got a lot of great zoning tools too (to make poking all the more annoying for opponents). Good okizeme.

Is Akira really Medium/Low and Lei Fei really High/High? I might argue (based on that first definition of the question) that Akira is a High/Med or a Med/Med. Akira is a bit weird for a beginner, but certainly pickup and play for a VF veteran. Is the argument of Low to master based on the notion that once you can maximize damage with Akira, you should pretty much have everything set? I still feel that he's a character that takes great discipline to be effective with (discipline a strong VF player would take for granted). Again, it all boils down to who is doing the learning and mastering.

In general, I also feel that Sarah is a Low/Low and Pai is a Low/Med. I thought Goh was more High/Med.

I mean, I can see how your scale applies to you, Ice. So I probably misunderstood the original question. Well, except for Jeffry, I imagine that Jeffry is a Low/Low for you. And well, maybe Sarah would be a Low/Low?

Gah... this question gets messed up if we get into what prior knowledge we are assuming:
-Scrub
-General Fighting Game Player (this is actually the one I really assume the question was aimed at)
-3d Fighting Game Player
-Someone who played VF2
-People who know VF4-VF4:FT (Ice-9's list makes me wonder if this is who we are talking about here)
-People who already play well enough with a VF5 character

 

I just bought vf5 on the ps3. I am about as new as it gets. I have always steered clear of vf because it has always been tagged as being difficult to pick up, and less fun than other fighters. Anyway, ps3 does not have a lot out right now, and good reviews/curiosity got the better of me.

I joined this forum because I now really want to be good at this game. I would argue that all the characters are tough to pick up, in the sense that general motion and gameplay is much more difficult than on, say, soul calibre. If you are interested, the characters you listed as being "low" to first learn are the characters I have had more success with, i suppose. Lion and Lei-fei have been the "button mash winners" in our games so far. I like Eileen, but am having a lot of trouble using her style. Anyway, there are my thoughts, cheers.

 

If you have a PS2, get Evo. Why? It explains the basics of the game engine easier than reading it from other imo. I agree, I came from Tekken/Soul Calibur as a total scrub to VF. VF felt really blocky and boring at first, but I heard such awesome things... I stuck with it. Who did you play in Soul Calibur?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If you are interested, the characters you listed as being "low" to first learn are the characters I have had more success with, i suppose. Lion and Lei-fei have been the "button mash winners" in our games so far. I like Eileen, but am having a lot of trouble using her style. Anyway, there are my thoughts, cheers. </div></div>

Depends what you look for:

Easy-input-power-character- Jeffry. I played Astaroth and Rock and Bryan Fury. I adjusted quite well.

Pokers/easy combos- Lion, Lau, Pai, Jacky, Eileen (?)


These characters I recommend.
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After you understand the basics, I recommend you try branching out to harder characters to improve your inputs and flows.

The best characters to learn flow charts and the game's system of frames: Akira, Goh, Wolf, Jeffry imo

Those characters have a limited number of strings and force a new player to learn options like "What can I do with little risk after an elbow?"

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Or you could just tell me to STFU. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shocked.gif

 

In soul calibre I played as sophitia primarily. I think it will just take a lot of adjusting as inputting combinations is much more difficult in VF, Something about VF feels very blocky in motion to me. It is not smooth or polished like soul calibre. I see a lot of potential in the game though, and people who know the game have interesting battles, so it seems.

 

I'm guessing you like the easy combos and punishing abilities of Sophitia.

Try Jacky.

 

That blockiness might be because you are playing on the pad. Movement like you should be capable of is really awkward on the pad, and close to impossible. I played myself on the pad and felt like there were clamps on my fingers. Watch some videos on youtube, and you will see how quickly people are capable of moving around. Then just practice that kind of movement. Srider had some videos up, and there is more on movement here on the forums.

 

Ouch sebo. But yes, I suppose I do enjoy easy combos and punishment.

DubC, are you suggesting that I switch from the pad? Is that even an option? I would gladly switch to analog sticks, if such a thing were possible...

 

http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=802608

http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-zl-49-en-70-1rjw.html

http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-zl-49-en-70-1rrr.html

These are the options for arcade sticks available on the PS3

 

you suppose?! soph is ridiculously easy to pick up and play, not to mention she has EVERY tool you could need (well, her and X both).

you misinterpret on the analog stick/dpad thing; you need to play the game on an ARCADE STYLE stick. i bought a t5 anniversary hori stick for my ps2 to play evo on when i first got it (which wasn't that long ago). i bought another hori for the ps3 when i got one.

it's the only way to play ANY fighting game, but it's even more important for vf, tekken, and gg imo.