Entering Ducking, Slipping

Is there any frame data for canceling moves into ducking, slipping etc, so you can know what attacks will not be interrupted? No record feature makes it hard for me to know for sure. Ex. it seems that after /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif on guard, SL /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif will beat out 14 frame attacks. Is there a list for canceling these moves on hit, guard, and MC?

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif

 

Thanks, I figured it had to be done by hand. I guess I'll talk my bro into helping me out later today and post up what I find. Has anyone done any testing on this?

 

What's important is that when coming in with;
4k+g,k
4pk
4k
66p+k

Your ducking / quickslipping mid is non interuptable as long as you come in with a hit (not so for 6p normalhit which is important). Implications being;

1) No point (or atleast a bad choice imo) to go into extended ducking or PT when you come in with a hit from these moves. Better to threathen with ducking K CH and G cancel > throw imo etc.

2) No point in using his lowpunchsabaki.

If you hit with 66p+k as MC coming in 66p+k8p becomes gauranteed setting you up for sideposition so if you can hitscan that power to you.

P.S; I'm not sure about 4pk's role anymore in VF5 compared to his new strings as they are mid>mid while 4pk is high>specialmid. Yes it's semicircular but, yeah, it's important to remember in the spacinggame.

 

Is it safe to say that fast crouching kicks beat all stance options if entered from disadvantage?

 

Very noteworthy, specially the part about 66P+K.
I was going to write about how I've started to hit check 66P+K then either continue with P or 8P/2P or just go for something else. It's only -6 on block but it executes in 17f.

When Brad does 8P/2P right after 66P+K (Facing Hook), he's only at -4 on block AND he moves to the side and away from the opponent.
But, if you start getting predictable with this move, your opponent will start ducking the Facing Hook and punishing you.

The beauty of this move and why it is so good that KiwE brought up hitchecking it, is that if your opponent starts ducking after 66P+K, in expectance of Facing Hook, you can press P, hit and then continue with Slipping/Ducking options.
Furthermore (as if this move isn't sweet enough) if your opponent starts to sidestep the followup P, you can start doing Facing Hook in the direction that they sidestepped bc Facing Hook is half circular /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

P.S.
If your opponent sidesteps 66P+K, he can duck/block/sidestep and even hit you out of Facking Hook BUT if your opponent blocks 66P+K and then tries to sidestep in the direction of the Facing Hook then he will get hookeded.

 

Just do a fast mid or a good CH quick tool around 15f.
Of course, theoryfighter says that you can PT and whatnot to avoid a mid but imo you just don't have enough reactiontime before committing to PT. Nor do you probably want it over other "real" defensive measures. If your opponents main reaction towards your movement is 2p - be very happy.

A mechanical Brad is a bad Brad. The most important part of his game is imo basicly hitscanning. If you go into movement from stuff being guarded you're already dead against a good player. Movements can be punished on reaction, nobody has to commit themselves to a guess before they see that you're doing the movement. He's not just about seeing if it's ch or normalhit but also about you being able to handle him defensivly (fuzzy, ete) when stuff get guarded cause you've hitscanned that you've missed.

Of note though is that entrances like 4k+g,k that put you @-8 on guard; it's ok to fuzzy here sometimes (even though you techniqually can't) cause many people will react a bit and see if you go into movement before committing. 4pk is -6 so you can fuzzy here, 6p guarded you can do lots of mixups after (and it's -6) cause people are so used to the fear of a 6pk string. Don't be surprised if you can do P or 2p here (delay your rising if your 2p is guarded) against a real opponent when it's guarded. Look out for players who will try to duck the second 6pk hit though (check their reactions).
66p+k,p you're fucked on guard, you can do the sidestepmove as a defensive tool mixed up with the second part if they duck (stagger) as the SS punch is almost like your get out of jail freecard. See if your opponent knows you're -13 here otherwise just do TEG all the time if both are guarded and be happy if they don't PK you.

Btw; his strings work very well from a sideturned situation due to things described. They almost get amplied actually in difficulty to deal with for instance if you go in with a 4k+g,k from the side (remember you have gtd forced mixups on hit).

/KiwE (Wishes Brad could go into slipping/ducking from PK)

 

i'm confused - are you suggesting that brad can do a fast mid to beat opponents' crouching kicks instead of entering stance at dis., or that its more rewarding for the opponent to use a fast mid instead of a crouching kick?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
6p guarded you can do lots of mixups after (and it's -6) cause people are so used to the fear of a 6pk string. Look out for players who will try to duck the second 6pk hit though (check their reactions). </div></div>

This is specifically a good example of what I'm talking about - on reaction to a blocked elbow, doesn't the opponents 16f or faster crouching kick beat every brad option except low guard or g-cancel evade?

 

He's saying its more rewarding to go with the 15f mid. Even if you hit with the low more often than not after the hit you'll be in a less favorable position, and they'll be guaranteed damage if they low block. But after a blocked 4k, SL P will beat out all attacks 14f or slower (that don't go underneath it). I'm gonna lab up tonight (finally talked my bro into it) and see what slipping and ducking attacks beat out what on block, hit, and counterhit. I'm tired of using SR P all the time to ch lp'ers.

Edit: After testing more entering off of a block. SL P beats out 14f mids (tested with jackys elbow) off of:

4pk
4k+gk
4k

SR P beats out elbow off of a blocked 4k and 4k+gk

more testing when bro gets home.

 

OK, here's a list of options for entering ducking slipping from the following moves. If you enter ducking or slipping from a blocked move you can get lp'ed all day, unless you use lp sabaki.
<u>
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif on block beat elbow with</u>:

SL /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif SR /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif


<u>/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif on hit beat lp with</u>:

SR /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif SR /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif Ducking /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif Ducking /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif Slipping /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif


<u>/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif on block beat elbow with</u>:

SL /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif


<u>/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif on hit beat lp with</u>:

SR /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif Ducking /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif Ducking /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif


<u>/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif on block beat elbow with</u>:

SL /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif SR /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif


<u>/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif on hit beat lp with</u>:

SR /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif SR /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif Ducking /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif Ducking /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif Slipping /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif


<u>/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif didn't test on block, on hit beat lp with</u>:

SR /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif Ducking /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif Ducking /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif


<u>/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif on hit beat lp with</u>:

SR /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif Ducking /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif Ducking /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif


<u>Counter Hit 6p beat lp with</u>:

SR /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif SR /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif Ducking /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif Ducking /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif Slipping /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif


Didn't test /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif entrance.

 

Nice stuff this, thanks.

Slipping p+k hit situations are especially good to keep in mind.

Always thought kp was quicker into stance than that, gotta steer away from that one then.

 

Yo, Myke!
In Brad's movelist it says that Slipping P+K (Waving Body) is -8 on CH. How can this be if the followup P (Waving Body-Smash Hook) connects on CH?

 

Probably because the followup P is coming from Slipping Left. The -8 comes in effect if you return to normal stance.

 

great post!!! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

kp into stance is also a great option after a pk. as another option to mess up your opponent.

 

Indeed! Don't know if you're still around bigjohnson54 but thanks for testing this out /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbs_up.gif
Wish I had a partner to test a lot of the stuff I come up with... unfortunately the only partner I got to test stuff out has a really good memory and will only use it against me /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif

 

If you are still around bigjohnson54, I'd also like to give my thanks for supplying us with this information. It was something that I've been wondering for awhile.