Episode II

Discussion in 'General' started by Chanchai, May 16, 2002.

  1. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    With all the promo going around... I couldn't shake off this feeling that Episode II would be a big disappointment... Not that I was expecting all that much (or maybe I was), but all trailers gave me the impression of shallow dialogue, cheezy moments, but lots of special effects. Of course, I also had the growing fear that there would be a lot of "fanboy material" injected into the movie--or worse yet, maybe the movie would be built around "fanboy material." I mean, it's not like Return of the Jedi had "fanboy material" from A New Hope shoved into it...

    As this irritation and annoying feeling grew, I became worried that I would waste my money watching it in a theatre packed with people and certain to have someone with Marge Simpson hair in front of me as well...

    So I said screw it, I managed to watche a bootleg of it. What can I say...

    I wasn't disappointed... at being disappointed. In other words, my expectations became reality as if it was a self-fulfilling prophecy of some kind. The only thing that seemed to PLEASANTLY surprise me was that there wasn't all that much fanboy material injected in (but it's there) and Ewen McGregor did actually have an accent that reminded me of the lines of Obi Wan in Episodes 4-6.

    I won't spoil the details or the big surprises (which aren't really surprises imo)... But I will say that I believe Episode 2 to be a movie that had potential, but ended up having no substance to it.

    Imagine a storyboard with fairly good art, but it's tagged onto a script with poor dialogue. Imagine that every chance of an emotional moment in the movie, moments that could be represented without a word and have meaning, felt rushed by and under-developed for pop-pacing. Imagine that much of the dramatic moments were not there because the writer wanted them in the movie, but because these events were just shoved in quickly because there was a reference to it somewhere else. Not to mention a really shitty attempt at romance with some of the corniest lines in a movie that doesn't embrace its corniness (hey, at least Blade II was blatantly being corny).

    And what about the soundtrack? You remember those great moments in the original Star Wars trilogy where John Williams' score would provide thematic undertones, but best of all, the atmosphere would provide appropriate sounds including memorable music? If you don't know what I'm geting at... I figure many who have seen "A New Hope" remember the Cantina scene, and if not that, at least the funky music... but it worked like a charm there--it was so natural and it ADDED TO THE ATMOSPHERE. Well... Nothing like that in Episode 2. The soundtrack feels like it was painfully injected into the movie at places where they seemed decent, but far from seeming like they have any effort. Even when there's a club scene in the movie, you don't get the atmosphere of a club in music or sound, you get John Williams. And in a diner scene that reminds me of Cafe 80's in Back to the Future Part 2--you hear speeding vehicles more than anything else, but music seems like it could be a part of that scene...

    Summary:

    -Acting: What acting? Only thing I can remember is Obi Wan's accent... that and a bitching brattish Skywalker. Dry, monotonous, and punished by the script.

    -Script: Sucked, VERY LACKING. I wonder if this was a failed attempt at minimalist without any of the goodness of the minimalist form. VERY DRY. Some of the corniest lines for romance... Don't expect any memorable lines like the original trilogy. There aren't any Han Solo's or Obi Wan's or any character with wit in this film. We get FATHER FATHER FATHER (Obi Wan), BRAT BRAT BRAT (Anakin), ECHO ECHO ECHO (Padme--without the Episode 1 accent, no more modified voice), and JAR JAR... There's also Yoda too, I guess.

    -Soundtrack: It was just slapped onto this movie.

    -Visuals: The only things somebody could say was really good about this movie. Just imagine that this movie is really just a CG animated film with people injected into it. Oh wait, that is what it is (and that is practically how other reviewers have labeled it). Portman puts on lots of different costumes though... I think it was a stretch to make her look like Carrie Fisher though (Fanboy material imo).

    Anyways... that's what I have to say about Episode 2... But I'm sure a good number of you will like it. For the record, I didn't hate it... I was just underwhelmed... but at least I was tempted to just watch Episode 4-6 again, and maybe even forget about Episode 3. The only effort that was put into this thing was CG it seems... I wonder if the actors were rushed and if the script was written for four year olds.

    "You're as beautiful as I remember you. As beautiful as you are in every one of my dreams for the last 10 years." (or something like that) -- Anakin Skywalker

    "Why do I always get this feeling that you're going to be the death of me?" -- Obi Wan Kenobi talking to Skywalker

    -Chanchai

    PS. There's TOO MUCH TIME WASTED on C3PO.
     
  2. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

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    For someone who "didn't hate it" you sure did come down awfully hard on the movie IMO. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, and I can accept that some will love or hate the movie. But I don't understand why everyone wants so much out of it. If you don't walk out of the movie remembering key lines, is that a bad thing? And I love how everyone keeps going on about how it's nothing but gorgeous CG with some people thrown in it. Well, wasn't that the case with episodes 4-6? I mean, special effects were used constantly throughout the entire movie! And the plot has essentially rung true throughout every episode.

    With episodes 4-6, I must of watched them a million times as a kid, and of course, a lot of scenes and lines have been burnt into memory. Rose coloured glasses and all that. I don't think Star Wars can ever have the same effect on the movie going audience ever again, especially on those of us who grew up on it, and to expect that it could/would/should is pretty unrealistic IMO.

    Just thought I'd chime in and say that I really enjoyed it. It's quite long (around 2 hours?) though much better than Episode 1 for me. Jar Jar probably has 10 minutes air time, and even then he's pretty mellowed out (compared to ep1). Yes, the CG is gorgeous, some lines are cheesey (hey, it's star wars) and the final light sabre scene is bloody brilliant.
     
  3. Mike90210

    Mike90210 Well-Known Member

    I saw the movie last night. There were some cheesy seens with Anakin and Padme. Anakin is pretty annoying in the movie, he whines way too much. I dont wanna spoil anything but that last fight was worth the movie for me.
     
  4. SummAh

    SummAh Well-Known Member

    1st of all..I'm not a star wars fan.

    I didn't judge the movie from what I know after having seen ep 4,5,6...or as u mentioned..the vision of the future.

    I stick by my guns and maintain that it's a bad movie. I do agree with alot of things that Chan mentioned.

    Bad music...
    Good CG n fight scenes
    Bad lines...I cannot remember the last time I watched a movie and just cringed everytime the leading character spoke his lines.

    Ok..everytime is an exegeration. More like those intimate moments with Amidala.

    Whether it is Star Wars..or Fat Wars or whatever Wars..I didn't really care. I do buy into the whole 'force' thing...as it's a fantasy and I like fantasy genre. I think it's a whole lot of fun when done correctly.

    I wanted the movie to entertain me.

    The CG n the final short fight scene was kinda fun.
    Obi wan doing all those investigations were quite interesting.

    But on a whole, the whole movie didn't entertained me alot.
    Of coz, ppl will still flock to see it.

    After all..it's star wars.

    Prolly my fav moments belong to seeing Bobba Fett and Yoda taking on Dooku..only to start walking like a 500 yr old man again after the fight...quite funny.
     
  5. Akebono

    Akebono Well-Known Member

    Please put a disclaimer at the top of this thread. Dont want people getting angry cause things in the movie are given away.
     
  6. Sudden_Death

    Sudden_Death Well-Known Member

  7. Fishie

    Fishie Well-Known Member

    Summers : Prolly my fav moments belong to seeing Bobba Fett and Yoda taking on Dooku

    Oh so that little kidd takes on Dooku ?
    Hmm I missed that bit, damn .
     
  8. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

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    There's a great review by Ishamael (found under the link piccolo gave) which pretty much says what I did, only better.

    Posted by Ishamael on 5/16/2002, 11:26 am
    (<a target="_blank" href=http://members.boardhost.com/hardcoregaming/msg/68851.html>original post at hardcore gaming</a>)

    Well, after having seen the film, I've gone back and read some of the reviews and I can comfortably say that many of the negative reviews come off as being needlessly whiny. I'm of the mind that since critics know Star Wars is pretty-much "review-proof", I think they use their reviews to prove something. Sometimes I think it's to prove their superiority for not being mindless robots to the Lucas machine like the rest of us masses. In Ebert's case, I think his ridiculously negative review is in balance to his somewhat over-enthusiastic apparaisal of Episode 1. He wanted to balance the Force if you will...*ahem*.

    Anyway, the film is great. I just don't understand why fruit was thrown at this movie. I really don't get it. Go to this movie to watch a movie, not to nitpick details for your upcoming Pulitzer Prize worthy review that you'll be telling your friends and posting on message boards. The movie does it's job and nitpicks should rightfully be glossed over because the whole is so much greater than the parts...just as in the original trilogy that some of fans (wrongly) hold up as an example of Perfection in All Things. The only reason they hold the originals in such high regards is because they saw those movies in an age before extreme cynicism, self-congratulatory wit (or what passes as wit in some people's eyes), and micro-analysis became en vogue. For this film, you need to return to the mindset that you had then...

    This film is like old school Star Wars. If you didn't like the original trilogy, you won't like this film. If you liked those, then you'll like this one. Really, it's that simple if you let it be.

    While I thought Menace was a decent flick (not GREAT mind you, but not total sucktitude either), this one pretty much trumps it in almost every way...big time. There were parts where I laughed and was in awe at the same time (guys who've seen the movie know what I'm talking about). There were parts where the packed theater roared at the screen in the same mixture of laughter and awe. It's been a loooooong time since I've been to a movie like that and that's ultimately why this movie suceeds so well.
     
  9. CainMarko

    CainMarko Member

    It sounds like you just want a rehash of the original 3 films. Its totally unfair to compare it to the orginal films when its not trying to do the same thing over again. Its gotta be different, yet there were certain critical things that each film has in common with the orginals (ill leave it at that). Its telling a different story in a different time with different characters and lives. Its a no win situation with people, its either "its not like the original films" or if it was people would say "its too much like the old films nothing new". I feel people dont go into the movie to enjoy it and look for the positives that make these last 2 films so good (although Im not saying they were perfect, nothing is). A lot of fan feedback is so nitpicky and "fanboyish" that it was destined to be a failure no matter what.

    The acting was markedly improved over the original, there was good emotion and drama conveyed. I didnt find an abundacne of corny lines at all. Dont expect Robert DeNiro or youre destined to be let down. And its supposed to be a love story, what love stories dont have some sort of "corny" lines.

    If the CG technology was available the original 3 films were made it wouldve used it back then. The CG was top notch and conveyed alien worlds and life forms better than any other movie out there. Although I did notice the Amidala/Leia thing. But thats ok, it is her mom afterall.

    And as for the script it was damned good, lots of details and insight on things past and things to come that ties everything together really well. I dont understand how "it felt rushed" rushed how?

    The music was as good as any IMO. So what there was no cantina style music, it didnt call for it. Why rehash something when it doesnt need to be. Also watching it on bootleg is totally different from viewing it on a big digital screen with full surround sound effects. Now thats atmosphere!

    Go see it in the theatres with a bunch of fans who love the movies for what it is. You'll enjoy it im sure, Im not flaming you or anything. I just get tired of the new trilogy getting blasted by everyone needlessly.
     
  10. Enkindu

    Enkindu Well-Known Member

    G.O.A.T.
     
  11. Blondie

    Blondie Well-Known Member

    Episode II absolutely handed it in every possible way you could imagine a Star Wars Movie Handing it. Love, Action, Good VS Bad, it's all there. Lemme tell you something, this Movie had the best effects anyone has ever seen. I'm in the Star Wars Mood again, and it feels great. The stories are coming together and it almost makes me want to cry, literally. Its so beautiful the way everything is starting to make sense. "STAR WARS" owns. period.

    oh yeah: you gotta see this movie =). later
     
  12. sayow

    sayow Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure if the Star Wars Fan has been adequately represented here. Let me do this as one of the great many 'crazies' who hung out for then Star Wars II/now Star Wars V for over 6 hours before the movie opened in 1980 here in Los Angeles. Yes, even back then, we had people hanging out in pup tents waiting for this movie. You may have seen the new set of hardcore Jedis waiting ever since the start of April to see this latest release from the fabled notebooks of George Lucas on TV. <font color=orange>I caution you now since it has been two days since the last post that I will be letting out a lot of spoilers in this post so be forewarned now and decide if you want to read further.</font color=orange> If you're looking for Academy state of the art acting or great dramatic scenes, check out The Rookie or Changing Lanes. This movie is not for you...

    I finally saw this new Star Wars II with my wife and was quite happy with it. The difficulty many new fans have with it and even former casual fans of the series is that each movie is taken as something complete. The fact is that Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones are both anti-climactic: they tell us where we should have already been and what we should have already known. Star Wars V let's us know already that Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker is Luke's father. We also find out that Princess Leia is also Luke's sister. Simple biology tells us that there's a mother in there somewhere in that genealogy... We also know through our experience in Star Wars: The Original, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi that Darth Vader is one of the baddest men in the galaxy. Did Phantom Menace give you the impression that Anakin was going to grow up to be this loveably cute little stinker? Guess again and look at the timeline: he's only going to get worse. His development now is understandable and his direction in life is more palatable. One can understand and feel for him to a great degree with this latest installment. And if you didn't know this was coming, turn away now because it's going to happen, kiddies: Padmé Amidala is going buy the farm next time out, Anakin will get jacked up majorly and those oh so chivalrous Jedi are going get their men's club busted up and scattered because they have to get to the point that we started out in Star Wars: The Original... This is definitely the best CG work yet seen in theaters. We've got to wait for the next Lucas or Speilberg installment to see the next step. It's also a cool step by Lucas to bring in other people of color into major parts of the saga. Also, we finally get to see what the fuss is about Yoda being Da Man. He leaves nothing left to imagine when he shows up for the final fight scene. As soon as he busts that Bruce Lee head and shoulder "You can run home to mama now" move, the theater rocked all the way in every direction. It was all that and the bag of chips...

    As was mentioned before, it's needless to blast each piece of this puzzle as it comes out. One has to remember that this is but one piece of the NINE movies that will feature Lucas's work. He is telling us a story. Just a suggestion: wait a while until he gets around to telling his whole story before you throw down on each chapter he writes. You don't want to be known as one of those who just reads select couple of sentences in a book like the Bible or Koran and pops off about how good or bad the book is based on that kind of experience. That's for sophomores... Do what you wanna do...
     
  13. agios_katastrof

    agios_katastrof Well-Known Member

    I thought the film was pretty good, with proper expectations (meaning, expect pathetic acting, semi-decent plot, and above avg audio/video), and the film has met my expectations reasonablely well.

    Some random thoughts below, and no real spoilers.

    - That loser that played Anakin needs to go. He's reaaally pathetic, even by Star Wars stds. And he had waaaay too much screen time.

    - As you have undoubtledly heard, Yoda rocks big time. You had to hear the audience cheer. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

    - S.L. Jackson should have been more of a badass. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

    - The Fetts were handled well, imho.

    - The Cloners are the most beautiful aliens that I have ever seen depicted.

    - Me'sa a senator!

    - I'm very, very glad that N*Sync were cut. The extra Jedis look a lot better than any member of N*Sync. I wish they had more screen time.

    - As expected, the visuals are amazing, particularly the backgrounds. I'd love to live on Naboo. Must be seen on a big screen with digital equipment, imho. Some of the flying scenes have been done before (in Judge Dred, Fifth Element), but they get better with each iteration. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

    - The critters looked a LOT like FFX fiends.

    - I love the precusor techs. I.e., you see things like the 1st generation AT-ATs.

    - If you haven't seen the Trilogy, you are going to miss a good lot of the references and foreshadowing.



    Overall, a very fun film.
     

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