Evil Lion

I hate Lion.

Pesky low punches followed by raising uppercut(or elbow). Then all the mid air combos. Arghz.
Any anti lion players out there with tips on how to counter this irritatin combination? Especially when you are using a "slow" character like Jeffry.

Was using Jeffry to fight this Lion player today. Had a lot of problem trying to stop the constant low pokes. Elbow is slow, punch is slow. Plus the fact that it is close to impossible to low throw the poking Lion.....any advice?(ie. CreeD help!)

 

two words: shot knee

 

Two words too, low punch.

 

What kind of pokes? b/d+PP, D/F+PP or plain d+P?

My guess is that he uses d+P to set up the FC, f+P. Good news is this. If the d+P misses, a low throw is guaranteed. Missed as in whiffed. It did not make contact at all while you are standing. Just input the low throw as the d+P misses. Players can get a little formulaic and you have to see their trends.

 

low poke as in D+P.
Hmm tried to low throw. Some how I ate the uppercut before I caught him.....you sure a low throw is guanrateed? I read another post concerning low punches and people suggested that it is difficult to low throw an opponent after he pokes low. The recovery is pretty fast.

Used low punch also....I think Jeffry's low punch has more frames than lions. Or I am just plain retarded. The later seems likely.

Shot kneE!!! Point taken.
Is it faster than a low punch?

 

You gotta block his low punch before you can low punch him, Jeffrey's low punch is perhaps 1-2 frames slower than Lion's low punch, but its got a longer reach + better hit judgement.

Btw, you CAN'T low throw him if you block the low punch, it must whiff(miss you), and you need to have fast reflexes.

 

Shot kneE!!! Point taken.
Is it faster than a low punch?

I don't really know if it's faster (it executes at about 12 frames in VF3tb). I think it's a good response because of decent execution, nice damage, and it's a mid-level move. I don't see why an elbow wouldn't work as well, because it executes at about the same framerate, and it gives a nice stagger.

 

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Pesky low punches followed by raising uppercut(or elbow).

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Rising uppercut is throw counterable, btw.

 

I feel enlightened. Thanks people. Gonna try the "anticipated" low throw technique.

Maybe we should make a faq on what moves are throw counterable.

 

One of Jeffry's best moves that many players overlook (forget about, including me) is the Ducking Low, d+K+G. His plain low kick D or d/b+K also works well to stop people then force them to guess. Either of these moves should be able to beat a low punching oppt. just outside of low P range with a little anticipation (do it a moment before you expect the low P, as you/oppt approach).

Also, even though I haven't tried using it against low P, his P+K+G, K Counter Toe Kick is a really good new move that seems like it would eat a low punch with proper timing. If you get a counter hit, you'll get KD.

Use Jeffry's superior range against Lion. Try staying just out of low P range and using moves like the ones I mentioned, or Kenka Upper, Rising Hammer, Middle Hell Stab, f+K+G, or even just a middle kick. And if you manage to block his low P, then he goes for the upper, try escaping and going for big damage.

Hope this helps

Spotlite

 

Thanks.
One more problem, is it possbile to dodge a low punch and then low side throw an opponent? Hmm.... sounds like an interesting option.

 

The Shot Knee is good but if he continuously low punches, the Shot Knee will be interrrupted by the low punch before it can even come out. The low punch is fast. The Shot Knee will work if he becomes formulaic and does one low punch tagged on with the FC, f+P upper.

The good news is that the low punch does not advance forward. When you are hit by the low punch, your character will be pushed back a little. The subsequent low punches will fail to hit you. Even if you are standing and not defending it will fail to connect. So if he gets desperately defensive and does low punches continuously, buffer in the low throw if you decide to gamble that he is going on a low punch fest.

 

I don't think it is possible. The low punch as mentioned does not advance. So if you dodge, you will still be in front of him though slightly to the side. Now, if he as you described uses the FC, f+P upper, dodging will find you to his side for a standing side throw.

 

I do not think Jeffery's low P is slower than Lion's. I know for CERTAIN that Wolf's low P is faster than Lion's and I assume Jeffery has a similar low P.

Because I play both Wolf and Lion, after a blocking Kage's u/f+K+G (forward sommersalt) Lion's d+p will ALWAYS lose to Kage's d+p. Wolf's d+p on the other hand connects togerther with Kage's.

 

ya it is AMAZING why NOT MANY people in singapore throw after block a Lion uppercut when it is throw counterable.... I dun know why though.

anyway I lose to Jeffery sometimes esp with his d+P and splash mountain. Seriously, that throw does HUGE damage. I think Jeff should win a poking game with Lion cuz he has better high and low P and better throws.

 

use jeffry's anti-crouch throws as soon as the low punch or kick

this is the BEST stratergy for him

 

I think the thing that would prevent you from getting a low side throw is the execution time on throws. I have a feeling that Lion might be finished with the low punch before the throw connects, but maybe not. Escaping into side throws works well, so I don't see why it wouldn't work for a low side throw. Just make sure you escape to Lion's back side, the same side his low P is coming from (towards his forward leg), and you should be at his side, not his front.

Actually, I tried some of this stuff out at ULCA yesterday against a Lion player who was using d/f+P, d+P, f+P over and over. I checked the black book, and it said between the low P and the f+P, Wolf and Jeff can do Knee, or b+K also works for Jeff. The timing is knid of tight though, so you might do better just to wait for the throw after guarding the f+P.

I also found that the d+K+G works really well at mid range. You should try it.

Spotlite

 

I feel enlightened. Thanks people. Gonna try the "anticipated" low throw technique.

Maybe we should make a faq on what moves are throw counterable.

Remember that the low punch can be blocked while standing now. If your Lion opponent is stuck in a rut and always seems to do the uppercut after the low punch, your best option IMO is to just stand and block both the low punch and uppercut and then thow or knee combo him.

As was said elsewhere in this thread, the key to low throwing a low punch is anticipating the low punch and the low punch whiffing. If you blocked the low punch, you don't have enough time to throw Lion.

I've been told that there are the beginnings of a guaranteed counter table in the newest VF4 mook... most likely that table will be more detailed when the next mook comes out. I'm sure someone will be kind enough to translate them and post them on the web soon enough. At this point for me (not having easy access to VF4) I'd rather not see a counter table come out... I think I'll learn more about the game if I have to figure out what's uncounterable and what's throw counterable etc. on my own. I may be a bit twisted, but I find it more enjoyable working out what works and what doesn't on my own.

 

Re: Evil Lion Knee Combos

Yupa, what are your favorite knee combos?
Do any have RO potential? Do any of hard wall potential? Thank you in advance.
AfterLion 6K(f+K)[MC] - TA Kick ( b,b+K ) sets up a cool finish. It does decent damage and allows for the best looking follow-up in Lion's repertoire. A TT pounce!!! Lion's TT Light pounce is INCREDIBLY fast. An example of a Combo Start FC_f+P> TA Kick ( b,b+K ), followed by a TT Low Pounce. Tapping G before hitting 8P(u+P) to avoid turning the TA Kick into a TT Double Punch. Is this BigCat Special still available in version b?

 

Re: Evil Lion Knee Combos

No favorite knee combos yet... most of the VF3 old standards seem doable... We were talking anti-Lion tactics... =)

Really, I've only played VF4 once so far. My comments above were in a very general flow chart sense. (Jeff blocks a powerful move then either throws or knee combos his opponent.)