Evo Jacky Strats Wanted...

I was wondering if Supergolden and other VFDC Jacky players had been playing him much in Evo? I took time yesterday to sit down and play Jacky a bit and all I can say is that I am quite impressed with him in Evo. He doesn't feel like the same old annoyance I have known for years. He actually seems a bit more rounded now and is a lot of fun. Hell, I didn't play Goh all day because I was playing Jacky. /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif I'm wondering about some of his better set-ups now since his + has been altered, he has a cool new lifter in + (Seems slow?), his + seems nice on MC, and ,++ keeps making my friends upset. They hate his new throw as bad as ,++ and ,++ when I'm playing Lau now. /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

What has become your B'n'B combos now?
Any of his newer/revised canned combos worth the chance to use?++,,,, is fun, but seems to get you hurt by a decent opponent. /versus/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Also, how reliant have many of you become to his shuffle step since it seems to have been given a bigger part of his game?
What are your key pokes or interrupts? +, +, +~ (His only elbow?), and + all see viable.
What is his + beater?
I have more questions, but I better stop for now before you become really annoyed. /versus/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

 

sup. I'm not an evo jacky specialist but to answer some of your questions:

Bread and butter combos:

P+K, P --> ub+K.
Never seems to fail if P+K, P connects. You can add a punch or low punch before the kickflip pretty reliably (I've seen it work up to akira).
If you can visually recognize the difference between an average and a pretty good float after P+K, P ... end it with f+P,P,d+K after good floats.

f+K (MC) --> b+P+K, P --> ub+K

This is familar if you've played jacky in version C ... instead of ending in f+P+K (which still slams but the opponent can tech roll) you can end in a kickflip for near optimum damage. You can also follow the lifting kick float with P --> f+P,P,d+K.

df,df+K --> low punch --> df,df+K

I saw this as a minor counter combo vs a crouched akira. That means the new vertical kick floats so reliably you can at least get this in most situations. Against a standing opponent I'd follow with f+P,P --> df,df+K.
You can also use the f+K combos listed earlier.

b+K+G --> b+P+K - P - f+K (heel sword, dodging PP-lifting kick)
(anyone confirm what requirements there are for this?)

The new f+K isn't as hot as the old one, but it's safer (uncounterable at -7 frames) so you can gamble with it a little more than you could with the old knee. The vertical lifting kick is statistically similar to the old knee but is 1 frame faster and has lengthy hit detection =D The means it's sound in situations where the opponent is just -4. The tradeoff is that the input of df,df+K is slower than the input of f+K. You'll want to buffer it during one of your attacks or during blockstun. If you block the opponent's low punch and perfectly buffer this kick in reaction, it should beat a second low punch --- how many average players do two low punches in a row? /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif (that trick wasn't doable with the VF4 knee)
The new puntkick is neat but maybe not as good as the old one. This new one is slower but has an interesting recovery property: just do the puntkick and recovery is -10 ... throwable, but if they're too far away to throw you, you might get away with it. Tap back after the new puntkick, and the recovery is -6... safe. You end up backturned though and will need you commit to an attack or turning around and guarding. You can't backdash away.

To beat d+P without any initiative, have you tried his new u+K+G? It's like shun's K+G a little, it's perfectly safe and since it's a hop move it will probably beat a low punch even though it's slower.

Otherwise, f+P is great to stop low punches as long as you have even just a tiny bit of initiative. f+P -is- his elbow by the way, despite the change in animation. The only thing not-elbow-like about it is the reversal level (it's midpunch reversal rather than an elbow reversal, if you'll recall the goh thread). Otherwise it's statistically the same as before. f+P,P is still worth whoring out at intermediate level ... one of the flakier tactics in my jacky guide.

Finally, one evo-specific jacky trick is to combo df,df+P+G [wall] --> f+K.
Makes for a wall throw people will ph3ar.

Hope someone else can chip in. From clips I can make a logical deduction that evo jacky play at high levels is almost exactly the same as high level VF4C jacky play, but you'll see people trying f+K's more.

 

[ QUOTE ]
b+K+G --> b+P+K - P - f+K (heel sword, dodging PP-lifting kick)
(anyone confirm what requirements there are for this?)


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quite simple...this only works in closed stance
works on all characters

in open stance, u do a very basic ++, ,,
which again, works on all characters.

In special cases (ie, wall) u can even add a + after the combo ends for extra damage (which doesn't earn u great additional damage, unlike akira's free knee after a wall...but what it does do is induce major annoyance...more pain for opponent, more joy for Jacky players)

However, if anyone out there have difficulty in recognizing stances...Jacky has a very simple combo.

b+k+g, p, b,f+k+g

this combo will work in either cases and can be used against all opponents except Akira, Wolf and Jeffry (fats do protect u!)

+ is also another option ppl should (or at least, bother with once in a while)


on a MC, Jacky earn a almost free beatkunckle combo hohoho
so good ^0^

I say almost free because CPU has been able to actually evade my beat knuckle followup..but I haven't seen any human beings done it b4...it's quite possible that it is like akira's ST, sgle plm, double plm thingy~

[ QUOTE ]
P+K, P --> ub+K.

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in closed stance, insert a low p after the backfist.
in open stance, insert a high p after the backfist.
works on all except wolf n jeff

[ QUOTE ]
To beat d+P without any initiative, have you tried his new u+K+G? It's like shun's K+G a little, it's perfectly safe and since it's a hop move it will probably beat a low punch even though it's slower.

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eeek. I honestly won't recommend this move. against a low p, the regular elbow is much better. a much colorful tool against low p is b+k or b+k+g. sets up colorful flowcharts to use against opponents.

actually, another not too bad move is his new side kick. d/f+k. It's not ninja elite...but it has good reach...not bad recovery...

again..one of Jacky's best move is his +,, counter tool. Wonderful move to use after guarding heavy moves..aka Double plm aka jeff's knee, aka lau's superknife. the list goes on n on n on n on. U even get a guaranteed free pounce! So forget abt throwing! The trick in using this move is knowing when to use it. ( U must know upon guarding which moves earns u a free +,,. Plz experiment). Against Akira, this move is ur best friend.

It is not a poking tool. But of course, if u wanna take a risk with it ..feel free to do so (which I do so from time to time) on MC, all three hits will connect...thus I get a free u+p too ^0^.

+ has a very good bonus. U can use it like akira's standing palm, delay ur counter attack n use + to nail those who wanna attempt to evade.

In terms of poking , like everyone else, u poke with ur standard + flowcharts. And like everyone else, after ur standard +, Jacky has many colorful options at his disposal. Jacky excels in psychological attacks...so experiment urself on what u can do.

A good thing to do is to learn to use his unique attacking options depending on which is his leading leg. Once again, it creates colorful options for Jacky, so experiment it urself~

One really good tip against Akira is his b+p+k move.
It is the perfect weapon against akira's SDE. Works exactly like Kage's d/b+pkg. Don't ask me why...but it's the way the engine works. It helps to avoid a very stupid scenario, i.e U wanna poke Akira but suddenly u eat a SDE Mc, KD, u know the rest of the deal~

 

[ QUOTE ]
df,df+K --> low punch --> df,df+K

I saw this as a minor counter combo vs a crouched akira

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I forgot to mention...this combo only works in open stance.

I remeber seeing the exact same thing as well.
But for the love of god, I couldn't dublicate the same result in free...only as a Mc

but hey, against light weight on a Mc, d/f d/f+k, p, k, p, d+k is most damaging..
yummy~

Also, a very cool combo near wall is f+k (Mc), k, p,k
Simple, cool n effective n damaging.

prolly the coolest combo near a wall after f+k hits on a Mc is f+k, then lighting kick.

But when Jacky starts to recover...hello free throw or combo for opponent.
Good looking..but useless..unless u are sure the lighting kick will kill the opponent.

 

Ok, been trying what you guys said and here goes so far.

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CreeD Points:
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+, -> +
+, -> -> + (Open)
+, -> + -> + (Closed)

These work pretty good, but you have to completely commit to knowing you are going to get a MC. Any hesitation and the + will whiff and you are blowing in the wind.

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+(MC) -> + +, -> + - Good, but lacks reliability.
+(MC) -> + +, -> ++ - Less Reliable than +
+(MC) -> -> +,,+ - Extremely Useful IMO

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+ - Jacky Elbow (Effective, but sucks that it's MP)

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++ -> ++ -> -> + - Not efficient.
++ -> ++,, - Same as above combo, but less room for error. Also, works on ALL in Open and Close.

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,+ -> + -> ,+ - Open Stance and I need MC to hit it. mC always misses for me. /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif

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Versus LP (++, +, +, ++, +) all seem viable. ++ and ++ are both slow, but seem to surprisingly work ok. The other three seem a bit safer though.

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,++ (Wall) -> + - Nice, nuff' said.

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SummAH Points:
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++,,, - Not a combo. What did you mean here? Maybe, ,, or ,,?

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++ -> -> ,++ - Nice and reliable. I like. What is good versus fatties?

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,++ -> +, - Better of the two.
,++ -> +, - Misses more.
I miss the +,,. /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif

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+,, - Sweetness and Pounce on MC. Drool~

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+ - Doesn't seem to track as well as you hint at, but maybe it's just my timing against evaders.

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++ - I need more practice with it, but I see some of what you are talking about.

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(MC) +,,,,+ - I don't see how this works at all.

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(Wall) (MC) + -> ,, - Nasty good.
(Wall) (MC) + -> ++,,,, - Iffy, but fun.

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Thanks for the help so far guys. I'm starting to understand him better, but I have a long way to go. I've gotta get more in watching my stance since it seems very important for Jacky. Hope to hear from other Jacky playas as well.

 

Also, it should be noted that our Evo Movelist on the home page is not up-to-date with changes made in Version B it seems.

 

When you finish a combo with kickflip, you need to do use u/b+kg fyi, u/b+k will miss. (jerky knows about this)

add: after b+kg: close p,b+pk,p,k. open p(g),kk. can't tell stance? u+p.

 

+(MC) -> + +, -> + - Good, but lacks reliability.
+(MC) -> + +, -> ++ - Less Reliable than +

 

soz, the above works and are reliable in the open stance.

 

About summah's b+K+G -> P -> K,K
He mean b+K+G, a jab, then jacky's canned K,K combo.
so b+K+G, P,G,K,K
(hold forward during the punch and the K,K for added range)

Bummer about the df,df+K ... stick to df,df+K --> f+P,P,d+K as bread'n'butter maybe? The df,df+K --> P --> KPK that summah was referring to is like the one mentioned above: You do a jab, then jacky's canned K,P,K combo.

Re df,df+K against evaders... the theory is this:

1. Someone does a big move, you block it.
2. That someone does E-DTEG right away to avoid possible attacks and throws. If you attack right away or throw right away, EDTEG is supposed to beat it
3. Therefore if you do right away, they dodge it and get the MC (yelling) dodge

So to foil this, one of the best options is:

1. Someone does a big move, you block it.
2. That someone does EDTEG, which you predict.
3. You therefore wait 1/10th of second for them to get a failed (no yell) dodge, and THEN to launch them during the crappy dodge animation, which pretty reliably will get hit by ANYthing.

 

[ QUOTE ]
These work pretty good, but you have to completely commit to knowing you are going to get a MC

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U do not need an Mc

n like creed said on all the other points I mentioned
timing is the key.

 

So, I just need the to hit of the +, sequence in order to get a +() to connect? I seem to miss it unless my + connects on MC. Maybe it's my timing. I'll keep trying.

 

SuperG? Blonde? You guys reading? Give us a hand up. /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

yes
just do a beatknuckle, backfist...then kickflip
it's as simple as 1, 2, 3~

 

This combo (pk,p,u/b+kg) seems to never miss... as creed said. It works in front, from the back, on anybody. /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif easy as 1,2,3.

 

Hey guys,

Don't usually read this section, but noticed my name and had to chime in... I've played a bit of Jacky in Evo...
I don't use his much, but I never used his knee much in version C...

I don't have too much different to say than what was already said... His new throw is much better than what it was before, a nice alternative if you think the opponent is going to escape or (which they probably will, if they think a throw is going to come)...

His beatknuckle is still great... After it do a kickflip, or () kickflip... If you hit his on a major counter you can try for a () or () () (pounce)... (last one shown to me by blondie)...

Some other advice... Don't be afraid to wait for your opponent to punch and do the neutral grab... If an opponent blocks the first hit of the beatknuckle, try throwing in the to get away or then perhaps come in with or .

Don't forget Jacky's mid punch... great move, lots of options afterwards.. The least of which is not to follow up with the canned /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

After his , if it's blocked, hit and go for either or ...

Hope it was of some help... Anything more specific I can help with?

-Alex

 

Jacky Strats! =) Oh boy!

IMO best New Moves for Jacky

1) F+k, on Normal Hit or on Crouching Opponent it leaves Jacky at -1, on Counter Hit it is one of his Highest Launchers if not the highest, on Block its -6. A non Throw Counterable Launcher is always a nice weapon =).

2) His New Backfist(b+p) Has GREAT Range and still possesses the same frames as in Ver. C plus there is a nice string addition as well with "P" that crumples and hits Special High(*).

3) FF+K is no longer throw counterable when you tap "Back" as you execute the move, ending in Back Turned position. IMO -7 or -8 would be about right. Once you get them to understand that this move isn't Throw Counterable fun games ensue =). ie 8 way walk with back turned around all high jabs, elbows, mid kicks, and lp's setting up horrible Back turned Beatknuckle(p+k) or in the proper stance pk for the stance specific Mid Kick stagger.

4) U+k+g is a wonderful move to set up when you have the time. It's execution is a bit slow but once its blocked and it usually is due to its semi-circular and mid property your at +1 or +2. But you are too far to really pressure with anything but Long Jab(F+p) or Mid Kick(d/f+k). On hit this move knocks down for TR options or down attack and on MC YES you get to Juggle with ppf+k. It is a WILD move for Jacky cause he leaves the ground and gets away from ALL low attacks even Lp's if timed correctly. Now that is HOT!

5) Mid Kick(d/f+k) has been changed a bit. The execution is about the same as Ver. C but with out the string potential of a second kick and with better block frames IMO -4 or -5. Still a great kick that gives Hella good stagger on Crouchers.

6) b,f p+k eye poke. The only reason I'll use this move is to try to get garaunteed shit. If the move hits you get garaunteed pk and on MC you get BKC garaunteed. It's nice, it's only draw back is that its High and slower than Jab. I'll use it when I get a successful MC dodge on an attack that is bigger than elbow, like a mid kick or bigger.

7) Elbow, yes for those of you that hate Jacky for his elbow IT HAS BEEN CHANGED!. Now it's a Mid PUNCH, not a elbow. It's been somewhat toned down. Execution is Same, Block is 1 frame better at -3, and on MC it's definetly not +8 on standing anymore IMO +2 or +3, but atleast it still gives that good old crouch stagger =P.

8) d/f,d/f+k Leg cannon Launcher thingy. It's SLOW in execution and not to mention your adding frames to it by having to hit d/f TWICE then "K". Range is OK and it is Throw Counterable. Your better off using f+k if your looking for a launcher IMO.

GRIPES....

Jacky no longer possesses a K cancel. Or a pkg cancel. I used that soo much to move into my flow charts in Ver C it's like cutting my balls off now in EVO. I just don't feel as fast and twitchy anymore. Oh well I guess I'll just have to make use of as much Game speed as I can. I just don't feel fast enough in EVO, it's definetly not lightning. Anyways hopefully this helps some if you have any specific questions you can pm me or post =). Sorry I haven't looked in Character and Technique in a while. peace.

 

[ QUOTE ]
Jacky no longer possesses a K cancel. Or a pkg cancel. I used that soo much to move into my flow charts in Ver C it's like cutting my balls off now in EVO.

[/ QUOTE ]
hohoho
my sentiments exactly

 

What is the best follow-up's to a MC + stagger? I seem to be able to get those with reasonable consistency, but I am unsure of what is his best alternatives here.

 

is pretty reliable after it. It can be struggled out of, but it's very difficult. If the opponent is good at struggling, you can always try for a throw.