EVO Lei Fei:Combos, flowcharts and stances

It recently came to my attention that their isn't really an awful lot writen here about EVO Lei Fei.Though there have been discussions of him, there is no real information to allow a new player to VF to be able to pick him up and know how to use him.Whilst far from a Lei expert myself I've begun to go back to using him after I relegated him to a secondary character of mine quite a while ago.I'll try go through things in a logical order but if I write anything down that is in correct or useless, please let me know.

STANCES
Lei has 5 stances now in EVO ( ignoring normal stance, closed or open).These are;
Hai Shiki ( or Defeat Miss system ) ++
Dokuritsu Shiki ( or Independent system ) ++
Nehan Shiki ( or Evade system ) ++
Koko Shiki ( or Tiger Stance ) leads to it
Bokutai from Hai Shiki ie (++)>

There are many ways of moving between these stances via attacks which I won't discuss for a bit.Stance management is an important part of playing Lei and his stances are integral to his way of fighting.A good Lei player will no doubt use quick stance changes to create a sense of "Randomness" about his attacks which essentially makes it harder for an opponent to deal with him.There are some very good examples of this all over the board here and also on the evo DVD disc replays.The disc replays definately worth checking out are:
HanaBiRei Vs Chibita ( Vs Lion )
HanaBiRei Vs Homestay Akira ( Vs Akira )
HanaBiRei Vs Mask DU HT ( Vs Brad )
Guerilla Vs HanaBiRei ( Vs Aoi )
Just in these few clips you will see plenty of well timed stance changes and stance "taunts" ( incidentally maybe the most famous Lei player Heruru is not on the disc replays but is definately in Quest mode as well as Joe ).The following is a list of ways that stances can be used to "taunt" people but they also have a good use with in a match..either for defensive purposes or reversing punches ( ++ stance reverse punches and so if you know a punch string is coming, switching to this stance will reverse it /versus/images/graemlins/cool.gif ):

"Heruru Dance"( I'm not sure who came up with it but it is widely credited to him I think ):
++>>++ and repeat.

"Backwards dancing":
++>++>++ and repeat.

Defensive back stepping :
++>++ and repeat

Feet switch :
++>++ and repeat.

Credit should be given to akira_zero and bareknuckle for bringing some of these to my attention.Whilst not quite minami stepping these techniques are actually quite useful.

COMBOS FROM TACTICS ADVICE

The following is a small list of combos taken from the tactics advice part of training designed to highlight some possibilities for Lei.I've referred to open or closed stance as o or c but have left out damage and variations as I will go on to these later ( incidentally if any one reading doesn't know, open stance is when both players have their backs or fronts showing to the screen , closed is when one has a back showing and one has a front showing);

1.+> o or c
2.+>>+ c
3.+>> o
4.>>+ c
5.>(++)>+>+ o
6.(++)>>>(++)>+>+ o or c
7.(MC)>(++)> o or c
8.+>+ o or c
9.+>(slight delay )>>+ o or c
10.+>evade>++ o or c ( I think )

I have chosen to write movement between special stances in brackets to represent a quick change to that stance or to imply that the combo starts with that stance.
Some notes:
3. is a nice combo to use as is a beatdown attack , requiring precise TR by your opponent.If they fail to TR corectly you have a free down attack.
5.Will work only on some characters and on some it is bettter to use >>+...generally I think these will be Akira, Jacky and the Heavy Weights.
6.To finish this against a HW use + instead of +.
7. may be modified with a Crouch Dash ( CD ) and is useful on MC ( Major Counter ) as it will cause a gut collpase. is an easier follow up.
8.+ is a useful move as it will avoid an attack and causes a head collapse.Finishing with will give the chance of a down attack.
9.Will not work Vs Akira or HW characters.

SERIES FROM TACTICS ADVICE

These are simple illustrative flow charts for Lei to use;
1.>>throw
2.> ( into Bokutai )>+>( float combo )
3.(++)>+(blocked)>+
4.(++>)>>throw
5.+>++>/+
6.>

Some notes:
1.The is half spinning.A good mix up after using this series is to use instead of going for the throw and this will stop any evades made to your front /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif.
3.Recognition of the blocked move must be quick as must execution of the + to beat away your opponents retaliation.
4.Instead of throwing can be used from Bokutai with delayed timing.
5.This series is also useful after a blocked string.
6. is a nice move to use as if it hits it requires a well times TR to avoid futher damage.Problem is that its throw counterable meaning essentally TEs are needed if the hit is guarded ( better still Evading TEs).

COMBOS
Now I intend to list the combos obtained from training mode complete with limitations.For now I will only consider LWs and HWs on normal or counter hit.MWs will fall somewhere between the two and some combos will be useful against any one.There are far more available than these I think but these are probably the better combos to rely on thus far.

Normal hit Vs LWs;

>>+ 65 c
>(++)>+>+ 71 o

+>+ 64 o or c
+> ( possible ground attack ) 61 o or c

+>+ 61 o or c
+> ( possible ground attack ) 58 o or c
( last 4 work on anyone and on counter go up to
76,73,72,69 damage respectively )

>()>>+ 52 o or c

+>>+ 52 c
+> 44 o
+>>( possible ground attack ) 40 o

(++)+(MAX charge)>+ 79 o or c
(++)+(MAX charge)>(possible ground attack) 76 o or c
( last two are easily evaded but will work as good miw ups )

(++>)>+>(++)>+>+ 61 c

()>>+ 59 o or c
()>(possible ground attack) 56 o or c

+>>+ 66 o or c
+>(evade)>++ 60 o or c

Counter hit Vs LWs;

(MC)>> 64 c
(MC)>(++)> 57 o or c

(MC)>(++)>+>+ 77 o
(MC)>>+ 71 c

(MC)>>(stagger) 56 o or c

The works the same for 58 damage o or c

The three + combos work the same for 62 damage c, 54 and 50 o respectively

(++)(MC)> 70 o or c

(++)>(MC)>(++)>+>+ 82 o
(++)>(MC)>(++)>+>+ 72 o or c
(++)>(MC)>(++)>+>+ 72 c

The MAX charge arrow punch combos ( (++)+ ) work the same for 99 and 96 damage respectively)

(++>)>+(MC)>(++)>+>+ 71 o or c

()>(MC)>+ 69 o or c
()>(MC)>(possible ground attack) 66 o or c

Some ideas , normal hit Vs HWs

> 40 o or c
>(evade)>++ not too sure on damage or stance type
>(++)>+ again not too sure on damage

+> 44 o or c

(++>)>+>+ 52 o or c
(++>)>+>>+ 55 o

+> 58 o or c

Some ideas, counter hit Vs HWs

(MC)>(++)> o or c

(MC)>>+ c
(MC)>>+ o

(++)>(MC)>(++)>+>+ c
(++)>(MC)>(++)>+> o

(++>)>+(MC)>>+ o
(++>)>+(MC)>>+ c

Sorry no damage for these yet /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif.Theres a few more I've still to put on as well.

Hopefully it should be apparent that Leis good combo openers are

+
(+ ...be careful of this as most players will throw escape it )
and his good combo enders are mainly;
+

+
though variation to his moves is the key.

Some combos will start in a specific stance and I have put down the way to enter the stance in brackest but this is by no means the only way to get to it.If you find yourself in the right stance after finishing one combo then there's nothing stopping you from launching straight into another ( except for maybe an evade or reversal from your opponent etc...).
I hope to have more to add to this soon whe I have played a little longer.

 

NIce stuff man, hard work indeed. May your Leifei skillz grow like the mighty Oak /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

Thanks for the feedback its encouraging to hear I'm doing somethings right.I'm actually really enjoying playing as him now and are getting more ideas of how to combine his stances in some useful flows and such.I will try to post some more soon when I've tested things out and made sure I know how they work. /versus/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

This is good stuff, I'll sticky it. Thanks for taking the time to put up something that's both readable and actually usable /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

Good job csnape! Even though i know most of the stuff there, i still found it very imformative and clear. /versus/images/graemlins/cool.gif

I'm an avid Lei player too. Do you have icq? Maybe we can share some ideas in our spare time? Just PM me if you can. : )

 

Thanks for the kind words guys.I'm hoping to post some more today with regards to using his stances and how they are linked through various moves.I also hope to do a similar thing for EVO Aoi and Sarah possibily in the future as neither of these characters have any " hard and fast " EVO tactics available in the form of up dated dojos and such.What I aim to do will be far from dojo standard but useful none the less I hope.

 

Nice post, I learned alot of new things while reading that. Excellent work.

 

Thanks for that Netrom, I have learned many new things from watching your Akira matches /versus/images/graemlins/cool.gif.

I'm now going to go back to the idea of stances and apologies about up the thread as I have failed to include Leis Back Turned attacks as well.While maybe not a specific special stance it still has its uses in flowcharts ( as I hope to show a little later )

Firstly I'll employ a shortened way of writing stance names , similar to that used in the Lei Fei Dojo:

N=Neutral, that is the stance you start a fight in ( ie either OPEN or CLOSED footing )
DM=Defeat Miss system ++
IN=Independent system ++
EV=Evade stance ++
TG=Tiger stance ( probably easiest way to get into it )
BK=Bokutai ++>
BT=Back Turned This can be reached by entering either TI or EV stance and cancelling it with

STANCE MANAGEMENT

An exhaustive list of which moves lead to which stance or out of a stance to another etc will now follow.I've grouped them, together with regards to what they start in to what the end up in.The title of each sub-section is the stance you start in and the abbreviation at the end is the stance you end up in;

FROM N:

N ( opposite footing )
+ N ( opposite footing )
N ( opposite footing )

IN
+ IN
( hold ) IN
+ IN

DM
DM

TG
TG
+ TG
+ TG

EV

+ BT
++ BT

FROM DM:

N

DM
+ DM ( opposite footing )

IN
IN

+ N
+ N

BK ( only way to get into the stance! )

FROM BK:

N
N
+ N
+ N

BT
BT

FROM IN:

N

DM
DM
++/++ DM

IN
IN

N
N
N
+ N
+ or + N

++ EV

FROM EV:

BT

N
+ N
+ N
+ N

IN
++ IN

TI

DM
++ DM

FROM TG:

BT

N
N

EV

DM

IN

FROM BT:

N

N
N

+ TG

BT

+ DM
++ DM

++ IN

Phew /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif.Hopefully to anyone who as actually read this far they will begin to appreciate that Lei has an almost unlimited amount of flow charts between stances making him an extremely varied character to fight against when played well.The options open to him from all stances are many and varied and I will go on to just I few I like to use later.I think the point I'm emphasising ( as DRE said on another thread more or less ) is that a random Lei is a very powerful Lei.It will take a lot of time and patience to know exactly all your options from any stance that you find yourself in, with respects to opponent and how they may play but I hope to offer some useful advice to use in some situations.

Before any more combos or flowcharts though I will quickly run through some other topics:

REVERSALS

Strictly Lei doesn't have reversals as other characters have ( ie //+ ) but his IN system WILL reverse all punches ( ie HP HE MP EL LP...if your are unsure of these abbreviations check the movelist LEGEND ) making it useful at stopping any type strings players will use against you.

Essentially I treat the ++ command is if it were a + and try to react on yomi, that is try to anticipate when a will come and reverse it /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif.There is a technique known as " conditioning " which will allow you to try and force an retaliation ( or any desired retaliation ) that you can reverse but I hope to cover this a little in some flowcharts.

SABAKIS

Sabakis are similar to reversals and there are two types;Sabaki-attack, S ( a ) and Sabaki-reversal, S ( r ).Lei has only Sabaki-attacks in his arsenal and no Inashis /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif ( an inashi is a similar move in which an attack will be deflected , doing little or no damage and leaving the opponent in a staggering state ).
Basically a sabaki is timed similar to a standard reversal and its action is to deflect an attack.Sabaki-attacks deflect an attack whilst doing damage and sabaki-reversals deflect an attack whilst doing no damage , generally leaving your opponent reeling backward /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif.

In N stance + is a S ( a ) which will deflect HP,HE,MP and EL.Essentially high and mid punch moves.

From EV stance and + are S ( a ) 's which will deflect HP,HE,MP,EL,HK,MK,SK,KN making the move good to use against an attacking opponent who just doesn't know when to quit! /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif.They are also useful as "suprise " attacks as the EV stance doesn't appear to be offensive in nature m( to your opponent ).

From TG stance is a S ( a ) which will deflect HP,HE,MP,EL,HK,MK,SK and KN as with the last two moves.
Finally Leis last S ( a ) is from the TG stance as well and is which will deflect LP,KN,LK and SW.
Sabakis are useful but I would not reccomend on relying on them too much as they will only deflect certain attacks and if your opponent becomes aware of this they can punish you for using them.

THROWS

With such variation and depth to his techniques, argubably something has to give in Leis game.It could be said his throwing game is perhaps the weakest of all the players in VF 4 EVO but this is not to say his throws are useless though.
Neglecting his back and side throws his throws in order of damage are as follows:

+ 55
+ 45
+ 45
+ 28

Which unfourtunately doesn't leave too much room for variation /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif. ( His side and back throws do 40-50 damage but you will not be presented with many chances to use these in a match).

The base damage for + is low but it is one of his two best throws in my opinion as it leads into moves such as and ( hold ) for more damage.For this reason alone the majority of people who play against Lei will know to TE ( Throw Escape ) from it consistently.
His other best throw I would say , is his + solely for the damage.The problem with this is that good players will E-DTEG ( Evade-Double Throw Escape Guard...the defense of entering an Evade after doing a guaranteed throw move { basically one with a long recovery } performing 2 TEs to cut out two of your throws and holding at the end of the action to ensure no throwing animation is given out if you don't go for a throw but go for an attack instead ) and cut these two options for you out .If you are finding it hard to throw opponents then I would reccomend mixing up your throwing game with + and +.A simple mind game to play would be >+.IE to dash toward your opponent but to then throw with + and follow up on it.The dashing motion will have your opponent preparing for the + throw..so after a few >+ throws you could switch back to maybe >+ ( which will do the + throw )or even better >+ ( done quickly ) to keep the guessing games open for a bit.

FLOWCHARTS

Well not really flowcharts as such yet, these are just some ideas I've currently been using.

1. ( to TG )>>+
2.> repeat
3. ( to DM )>>Bokutai moves
4. ( with slight delayed timing ...leads to IN )>
5. ( to TG )>(succesfull sabaki-attack)>

Some notes:
1.Quickly guard cancelling the TG stance into the BT stance will get the body check ( + ) seemingly coming from nowhere.Useful near the edge of an arena with no walls for RO ( Ring Out ) purposes .

2.A very frustrating series for your opponent and a cheap one for Lei.Until they recognise to block the low kick they will continue to be staggered backwards.

3. is a good offensive way to get into the DM system which in turn is the only way to access the Bokutai stance.From here +,(delay),(delay)throw or + will work well.

4.The slow-ish series will leave your opponent un-aware of what you may be doing which is why the or alternatively the slower + is a nice follow up.

5.If memory serves the succesful sabaki-attack will cause a gut collapse leaving a window for or perhaps the more damaging + /versus/images/graemlins/cool.gif.

Hopefully by now it is obvious that is a must to know what stance you are in and what you can do from it.When in N stance make use of ( or as I like to do...saves any over excitement leading to a series ) to change your N footing to better suit your needs.By this I mean that if you're looking for a decent size combo and require a closed start and you're in open just flick out a quick jab .While maybe not quite as integral to play as say it is for Brad these little touches should help you maximise your damge potential.

I'll try to post some more mix up ideas soon.

 

Just like to add that any moves that causes a gut collapse will give you an opportunity to go for backstaggers. Say if your + hits and you follow up with . If the opponent tech rolls there will be a moment when their back is facing you.
Using the arrow punch you can cause a back stagger which will lead to more combos (e.g + then +). That combo will take up almost the whole energy bar.

Though all good players will not fall for it, it is something worth trying on the inexperienced.

 

Hah yes indeed the infamous arrow punch to stagger TRs.I've more i want to post soon if time permits...

 

Yea post all the Lei Backstaggers you know of. I'm too lazy to figure them out myself. /versus/images/graemlins/crazy.gif Well I don't have a PS2 right now anyway. /versus/images/graemlins/mad.gif
BTW Excellent Thread!!

 

Yeah its no problem...I think I'll actually have tonight off to play the game as opposed to write about it all the time and get down as much as possible.I've got some ideas for some ker-azy flows that will hopefully go through all his stances one by one very quickly! /versus/images/graemlins/cool.gifObviously I'm going to include a lot of practical ones as well.

 

My TR/backstagger guide has most of the vicious ones in lei fei's arsenal.
It's a sticky in junky's jungle.

There's some slight change to backstaggers I think, they're easier to struggle or something. Lei also lost the u+K,K restagger trick.

 

Just remember that good players will NEVER fall for it. Even evo's higher level AI won't TR in that situation.

 

Slightly later than I anticipated, but a quick update on some random ideas.

Recently as opposed to moving between stance quickly I'm been experimenting with simply guard cancelling them. Obviously not possible with the Bokutai stance I find it most useful when switching to DM or IN system ( from TG and EV stances it will lead to BT which I'll come onto a little later ).

(++) is useful for a few puproses. Firstly like a standard jab ( ) it will change your footing from open to closed or vice versa which means you can set yourself up for some footing dependent combos as opposed to worrying about it when you've just floated your opponent. Secondly it actually looks like an attack ( as with Aoi's many guard cancellabe moves ) so it may make your opponent react with a rash decision for which you can try to nail them.

( ++ ) is also useful for the same purposes mainly due to the fact that it will threaten your opponent with the DM system from which Bokutai is accessible. However it will not change your footing.

( ++ ) is less useful as you'll have your back turned by the end of the process making a quick retaliation by you, less unpredictable.

The following are some ideas to use in different situations:

Whenever you manage to hit your opponent into a gut collapse always try to follow with
(++)
(++)
or similar ideas to get consistent damage. Recognition must be quick as must the stance command be to capitalise on the situation.

If you have knocked down an opponent and they are near a wall try to arrow punch over their grounded body ( ie (++)+ ) and then take advantage of Lei facing the wall to use either of his wall attacks. I've seen this a lot as an after match taunt used by many players but it does have some use in an actual match.

When in the TG stance ( for example ) be sure to use the ability to move. You can step forward or backward with / so make an effort to do so and continually play with your opponents mind as to what you will do.

Some patterns I find useful to impliment:

( These are just a few ideas for now. As I said before there are many , many ways of getting from one stance into another etc and many tricks to mess around with. It pays to experiment with ideas and to make an effort NOT to become stale and predictable ( just check out Heruru to see what I mean! ). )

( to DM )> ( to BK )> + float>combos such as;
or if you started in closed. will work from either footing and will knock your opponent a decent way back.

( to DM )> ( to BK )> or >throw

( to DM )> ( MC to IN )> or instead of trying to get an MC kick try + to knock opponents back.
As a mind game try to mix in
( to DM )> + ( ie arrow punch ) if people become aware of you abusing to get into Bokutai for example.

After a successful hit of delay slightly then hit with holding the kick if you want to go into IN system.

From DM:

(++)>> ( to BK )> or >throw
or after the jab continue with ( ie series ) or hope that the jab provokes and attack and try to get a MC with then follow with an appropriate float combo.

From IN:

(++)>(stagger)>+ ( arrow punch ) times to hit just after the opponent recovers from the stagger. Or after the press for Bokutai stance the follow with + for float combos or the />throw guessing game.

+ and + both function as more or less the same thing enabaling you to enter the TG stance with different footing in each case. From here you can try ;
( to IN )> or +
or
> ( into BK ) > other ideas already covered.

A frustrating series to defend against is:

( or ) ( to TG )> ( to BT )>+>to DM system and possible options from here or Bokutai. The two opening kicks will seem strange as the first one swings from one dirction and the + from BT will swing back in the other direction and leave you in the DM system /versus/images/graemlins/cool.gif.

A similar one is

( to TG )> ( to IN )>to further options from IN.

Lastly as a mix up is

+ ( to TG ) >+>(++) if you hit your opponent for a gut collapse.

Hopefully I'll have some more to add by the end of next week but any more feedback is always welcome.

 

damn man, you have no idea how muh you've helped me, i wanted to start using him, but he's one complicated mofo. thanx man, keep it up!!!

 

Thanks for the kind words /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif. Next chance I get to write some more I'll try to.

 

what about: ++>+++ repeat ?

This backs you out faster than anything. ++alone can make the opponent whiff when you know there going to attack with something short range, and in this same situation + also seems good to get around some attacks.

 

Yes I also forgot

++>++ and repeat

Theres a lot of ways of using these ideas, some of which I've only just become aware of from watching some vids recently. Feel free to add any more you can think of.

 

You said ++ wasn't so good but I still think the stance movement is very useful beacuse of how far it pushes you back.

Instead of G cancelling the stance use a quick stance switch to increase your attacking opptions or simply turn you back around. This can be done in the blink of an eye when you've made the opponent whiff making it I think a good part of his movement .