Evo Shun - Bread 'N' Butter with Cheese [Combos, Tricks,etc.]

Ah very cool - hadn't thought about that throw. A nice find indeed. + is good, the only real thing about it is that it's high, but it probably depends on who you are playing more than anything. Some people will duck at the edge of the ring and some won't.

Anyway was playing Evo recently at the arcade (I wonder who some of these people I play are actually - they tend to know how VF works - tech-rolls etc. and they seem to know how to use the new Evo moves. Any Vfers from Australia [other than the obvious] hiding around here? /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif) and I was wondering about the (From DS) +,, as I could have sworn the staggered on block. It was only a very tiny stagger, probably just enough to get you on equal grounds with your opponent, but as the can be evaded so easily it doesn't sound too unlikely.

The other thing was that if + floats (from MC if not mistaken) you can follow up with something like (From DS) , +,,. Your opponent will tech-roll after the +,, and if your lucky, will dash into the final . Seeing as though + is a reasonably good move, it's not a bad little combo/flowchart. Also + is one of those special "21 damage and up" moves that can squish rising attacks, so if you get the timing down, it's feasible as an okizeme tool. Very nice if you ask me /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif.

 

DC: A good way of using the b+p move to ring someone out is if you knock the person down and they techroll and dodge. It will turn them backwards and you can do all sorts of nifty damage on them.


I got to play some evo last night for the first time in a while. I noticed that after the mule kick (u+k or u+k+g) and then you follow it up with the f+p+k and he drinks, he recovers a little faster than before.

Also, I noticed that I can get up to six drinks now before the start of the next round rather than the (more than likely) usual 4 drink points. Just lay down (hcf+p+k) right after K.O. and drink twice.

 

hey cool an exclusive evo shun thread. was wondering when one would popup. anyway i really dont have that much experience with evo yet and still do much of my practice whenever i get the chance on the original VF4 verC so some of my setups and stuff might not work (though i highly doubt that. the engine is more or less the same). anyway here i go:

1) just recently stumbled upon this setup. should you ever connect a |+++, , on ur opponent the usual way to move out of range is to immediately cancel the drunken stance and do the BT rollaway (BT ) (if you try to hopback in DRU stance you can still get hit by rising attacks).

anyway instead of doing that immediately go to SD stance from DRU via ++. now here's the cool part, if you suspect your opponent will rise with a lot attack here (and a lot of people will if they see you in SD stance right in front of them), immediately do SD the moment you see them twitch. SD beats low rising attacks. now once they catch on and try a mid rising attack on you. immediately go into LD stance from SD via ,, which will cause the mid rising attack to go right over you, giving you an almost guaranteed LD ,,+, (provided you had 10dps).

so the guessing game is basically from SD stance to beat low rising kicks or , to LD to beat mid rising attacks.

in general both SD and LD stance do a good job of beating mid rising attacks but the situations where they can and can't be hit out of stance by rising kicks varies. (edit: for example, whenever you connect a +[p] pounce, you can avoid all mid rising attacks by immediately going into SD stance after the + pounce, but going into LD will cause the mid attack to hit you, this again applies to everyone but akira who can getup fast enough to hit you out of both the SD and LD i believe. similarly the only exception to the above mentioned setup (the |+++ one) is that its harder to connect on akira since he has the fastest rising attacks in the game. though you can STILL beat his low rising kicks and go under the mid rising kick with the stance transition, nothing is guaranteed afterwards.

2) the HS have almost invincible priority against rising attacks. hence if you ever use +,,,{p]++ in combos and suspect that the last hit will cause a wall stun just stay in HS right next to them (which again usually invites retaliation) and the moment you see them starting to rise, do the HS and you should beat out your opponents rising attack (mid/low) everytime (timing is pretty easy, anyone can get it within five minutes). you can also do the same thing without walls if you use +,,,++ in open space and immediately jump forward after the transition to HS (though this doesn't work as well IMO since the opponent can usually techroll and move out of harms way).

3) about +, , yes it does cause block stagger. very useful in certain situations. SHU likes to use the + variations after + mostly.

4) stompoutloud: unfortunately after ++, ++, characters like akira can still get a techroll into dblplm on you guaranteed. /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif however i have noticed that on occasion, if you do ++ after the rising mid kick from face down feet towards, you are at times out of range of akiras dblplm when he techrolls and does it immediately (unfortuantely i dont know the exact circumstances yet. probably has something to do with open/closed stance maybe).

5) another setup i like to use occasionally. after one drunken sweep (++), do a ,+. if your opponent doesn't tech the ,+ will hit all characters upto akira after which you can hopover any rising attacks or away from them for safety purposes. anyhow if ur opponent does tech after the sweep, the ,+ will switch sides with ur opponent, often setting you up for a BT +|+ guessing game (if you suspect u might get hit you can always BT roll away to safety).

6) i've noticed the +, has rather weird properties when used in juggles. specifically, i mean it is the only move i know of that works in combos at a certain number of drinks and STOPS working after a certain number of drinks. here's an example to clarify: on jeffry, if you want to be able to score a +, after hitting with a CH ,+, you need 5dps. here's the weird part however. once you acquire 21dps or more, this same combo wont work anymore! the second hit of the +, will always miss then. another example. at 27dps, you will be able to do ,,+,, ,,+, on akira regardless of stance. however yet again, once you reach 33dps, the final hit of that combo wont connect anymore. weird i know. i plan to do extensive research on how many drinks you need to do certain combos on which characters.....so far i've only really done some experimentation on jeff and akira. sounds like a waste of time but it always helps to know how to maximise damage with shun with regards to the amount of drinks you have /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif.

7) unless i'm mistaken, shuns 270 throw only gives 4dps rather then 6 now /versus/images/graemlins/mad.gif (absolute crap if you ask me).

ok thats about it from me /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif. i'll try and post more stuff as i come across it. great thread, lets keep it alive.

edit: btw i had one question for everyone. has anyone experimented with new DRU stance | drunken walk yet?? it looks like a cool evasion tactic. i was thinking of a setup for it (the setup was that if you're playing against any decent player, they're mostly going to duck after ,,|+. hence that means that if you just do , (hold ), the momentary pause by the opponent (because he's expecting the followups) might be enough to evade the incoming attack by the new DRU stance walk).

 

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Also, I noticed that I can get up to six drinks now before the start of the next round rather than the (more than likely) usual 4 drink points. Just lay down (hcf+p+k) right after K.O. and drink twice.


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This, believe it or not, has been around since version C. although few people use it. I personally don't use it because to get enough time to get the six DP, the last attack of the round has to be fairly quick, and you have to get into LD stance quickly after that, so the timing is tight. I think it's a useful move, but until I can roll that damn stick at the arcade, I won't be going into LD stance /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

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2) the HS have almost invincible priority against rising attacks.

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Hmm never thought of using this against rising attacks. I assume it would have about the same effect as ++ does on rising attacks. There is only one thing with this: If your opponent delays an attack, rolls left or rolls back, it can stuff this tactic. I don't know about you but I always have difficulty knowing what the opponent is going to do to get up, but if your opponent is predictable enough then it would work quite well.
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7) unless i'm mistaken, shuns 270 throw only gives 4dps rather then 6 now (absolute crap if you ask me).

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It sure does. Generally I'm fine with this but it would have been better if ,,+, was taken down to 14 DP as well. The only reason for getting the 6 DP was to get 16 DP for the ,,+,, which now doesn't work. In a good match, getting 10 DP is hard and getting 16 DP is very unlikely. Not sure what they were thinking there but oh well.
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edit: btw i had one question for everyone. has anyone experimented with new DRU stance | drunken walk yet??

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From what I've seen of it it sucks. Basically it's like the +++/+++ drunken walk and it evades only a third of as many moves as a true evasion. I will say though that there may be situations where it works, but I think they will be few.

Anyway nice post - some new stuff in there (we all love okizeme! /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif). Just one other thing - Drunken Stance is usually abbreviated as DS. It's not that big a thing but it keeps it consistant and means that it doesn't take me the extra 1/2 a second to figure it out /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif.

 

actually drunken cat.. I know about getting six drinks when laying down on version c. But I watched replays that are on the disk and it seemed like everytime shun players would lay down and have enough time to drink twice.


Yeah, his 270 throw now only gives you 4 dps. That sucks. But oh well. I wonder if his wall b+p+g throw gives five dps or less? the one where he slams you into the wall and then he drinks.

 

about getting six drinks, i usually only try for that after a really fast recovering move like +, since you usually have enuf time to get the drinks. i dont bother trying for six drinks after moves like + since your timing needs to be spot on to get the second drink from LD (and u more or less have to know that ur + would have killed ur opponent so you can start buffering the LD motion right away). of course ringouts are the best because then you get an easy 9 dps /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif. if only shun had good ringout potential...

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Hmm never thought of using this against rising attacks. I assume it would have about the same effect as ++ does on rising attacks. There is only one thing with this: If your opponent delays an attack, rolls left or rolls back, it can stuff this tactic. I don't know about you but I always have difficulty knowing what the opponent is going to do to get up, but if your opponent is predictable enough then it would work quite well.

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i assume you meant the ++ there when you said ++, and yes the move works in exactly the same way but IMO it has even more priority and is even easier to time then ++. as for delayed and siderolled tactics stuffing this strategy, you're right it probably would. thats kind of why i mentioned its best to use it near walls because your opponent is more likely to immediately rise with an attack in that situation or roll to the side and then rise immediately.

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Anyway nice post - some new stuff in there (we all love okizeme! /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif). Just one other thing - Drunken Stance is usually abbreviated as DS. It's not that big a thing but it keeps it consistant and means that it doesn't take me the extra 1/2 a second to figure it out /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif.

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thanks and yeah i'll try to use proper notation next time /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif. sorry but i'm still very new to VF terminology (still too used to tekken is some ways ).

anyway some more stuff that i use occasionally. ,,|+, is good for okizeme and beating low rising attacks only after the + throw IMO. in this case its really really easy to beat out low rising kicks, delayed or otherwise and nets shun the best possible damage against a low rising attack (unless you were playing against a LW character and had at least 20 drinks in which case ++, +,, might be the better option). in every other situation i've tried, the low rising kick always seems to beat the ,,.

the ++ transition to HS moves you firther back then the HCB++ method but the uses for both are different. the ++ hops over almost all low attacks easily but moves you back a little too far to initiate any guessing games except for the HS + stuff. i really don't have any practical uses for it thus far but i think it might be useful against a low attack heavy character like lion. the hcb method is the one i use more because at certain frames it ducks even mid attacks. i've been able to avoid kage's elbow with it from time to time. however the timing for that is totally unreliable and not really practical IMO.

 

Hm.....

Ending the round with these moves can bag your 6 Dps:

+


Dodge attack witll also give you 6 Dps provided opponent got killed by the very last kick (this is possible for version C but never try in Evolution)

Furthermore, always go for wall throw, cos it adds 5 Dps and the damage is HUGE cos a high pounce is guaranteed (So far never encounter anyone who can escape the high pounce)

 

I would like to see setups and combos for backstaggers... especially punishing face down techrolls (like from the MC stun). Only problem I have is that if you do anything more than a LP after this (like another stun punch or the elbow/sweep combo) then they recover to quickly for a backstagger setup....

 

(Warning: Thread Resurrection)
Okizeme stuff: All of these tactics are for combating rising attacks, the timing and whether the rising attack is mid/low is included for each move. If the 'Timing' is Early, it means start your attack before your opponent's rising attack, if it's Together it means attack at the same time as your opponent's rising attack, and if it's Late then attack just after your opponent's rising attack. All of these have been tested on Ver. C PS2, albeit for the Evo moves, which is theory/guessing.

,+ - (Mid) Timing:Together. This move should duck under a mid rising attack and hit for a nice ,+,+, combo.

,+ - (Mid/Low) Timing: Late. You have to get the range right but isn't too hard. Easier from quick crouch dash too. Couldn't get it to crumble even though it hits during rising attack.

+ - (Mid/Low) Timing: Late. Won't do much as far as a follow-up goes - it doesn't have enough advantage.

+ - (Low) Timing: Early/Together. Alright damage, just no follow-up. Don't try it when close to opponent.

,,+ - (Low) Timing: Together. Execute from outside the range of the rising attack. Only the last two hits will hit.

+ - (Mid) Timing: Early/Together. Easy to do, but not much advantage.

+ - (Mid/Low) Timing: Early. Very difficult but if you hit at the exact same time as your opponent, you will get a nice float.

+, - (Mid) Timing: Early. You want to do this attack early so the will hit your opponent as they are doing the rising attack. I tried to get it to work for Low attack as well but it always seemed to miss.

++ - (Mid/Low) Timing: Early. Charge this up and it can do some damage. You want to be just outside the range of the Low attack, but you can be closer for the Mid as Shun ducks when he does the attack.

++,, - (Mid) Timing: Together. Do this just outside of the range of the attack.

++ - (Mid/Low) Timing: Together. Complete ownage. Very useful.

++ - (Mid) Timing: Early/Together. Although the Mule kick isn't 21 dmg or more, it seems to work anyway. Difficult to time.

,,,,++ - (Mid) Timing: Together. Very nice for avoiding Mid rising attacks. Just don't leave it too late because they can still hit you during the lying down animation.

(From Handstand) - (Mid/Low) Timing: Together. Same effect as the ++. Easy to time.

+ (From Handstand) - (Mid) Timing: Early. You want to time this so that Shun rolls under the Rising Attack.

+++,/ (From Drunken Stance) - (Mid) Timing: Together/Early. Should roll under the rising attack.

+ (Backturned) - (Mid/Low) Timing: Late. Attack from just outside the range of the rising attack. Not confirmed but should work.

 

Man your dedication to the ol' drunken fool brings tears to my eyes! Keep up the good work!

Cuz