Examining the value of the throw escape in FT

I`ve become a huge fan of VF4 in the past few weeks as I`ve been in Japan playing FT. I play Goh, and although I`m not incredible by any stretch of the imagination, I`ve been put up against some stiff competition in some of the arcades here.

Which brings me to my point. In the average 5 round match I`m playing here, the frequency of throw escapes is incredibly low, approximately 2. This includes both the matches I`ve played, as well as those I`ve watched.

Although FT hasn`t appeared to me to be the jab fest someone mentioned, the reliance on throw escapes seems to be greatly reduced. The only throw escape I see on a semi-regular basis are my ground throw escapes, and even against 9th dan (ish) players, the escapes are pretty rare.

The emphasis to me has appeared to be upon valueing the dodge, as the variety of throw punishing combos seems (to me) to have increased, thus decreasing their frequency.

In addition, the majority of throws are executed when a player is on the offensive while the opponent is guarding for an opportunity.

It may just be that the skill of the players I`ve been around is low, but of the media I`ve watched including the final matches from Kyoto`s arcade, very few throws have been escaped.

It could just be the difficulty of performing the manuver, but it seems to me that the value of the throw escape has become simultaneously lessened, and increased. Those who can do it benefit greatly, but as a whole it seems more difficult to do under FT`s new environment.

Just a post to generate some conversation, as well as to point out one of my observations.

Happy gaming!
Dagger

 

Hey Dagger, thanks for sharing. it's interesting on how you note the throw escapes being lower priority than they were in Evo.

I really want to try this out for myself after all this reading and watching the videos. too bad we may not get it for awhile,tho.

 

Some of what you say is true.... but undermining the value of throw escapes is just plain ridiculous. Watch any of the recent FT clips and you'll see throw escapes being done frequently.

 

I`m not attempting to undermine it. I realize that throw escapes are a very important part of the game. In one of the akira v akira matches (i forget which) the one who made 3 throw escapes won the match 3-0. I realize thats not a coincidence.

However, from personal observation, the throw escape seems to be put on the back burner, at least where I play, and a decent portion of the media I`ve seen lately is full of throws, but almost devoid of throw escapes. I`m just pointing it out. I personally almost never succeed in throw escapes, but it appears that a large portion of the FT community is dealing with the same problem. However, in spite of my ineptitude at throw escapes, I still win a decent portion of my matches against some skilled players.

In my mind, it seems the (in)ability to successfully throw escape will not break a player in FT, but being able to escape consistently WILL make a player. That was what I meant in saying the value has been both lessened and increased.

Sorry for the confusion or poor language usage.

Dagger

 

Just why would it be "more difficult to do under FT`s new environment."? If anything it should be easier actually (with added buffering). Weren't you a totally new player for FT? Kinda weird comparing TE's to evo then if you never really got into it. There's not much else to do then TE's when you get a TC move blocked - atleast intelligently. I don't think FT will somehow degrade the usage of TE's as it just does not make sense so yeah probably it's the players you're playing.

/KiwE

 

It is an interesting observation. I went back and watched a couple of the recent clips. I chose the two Chihou clips (Bay Final and Semi) to see how many throws were attempted and how many were escaped. Now, not counting back throws and catch throws, there were a total of 47 throws attempted. 13 of these were escaped. Under 30%.

To saythat it's FT - I'd have to go back and watch some Evo clips and make a similar assessment, but if memory serves me correctly, I'd think throws were escaped at least 10% more of the time.

What's just as interesting in the Chihou clips, is how many times someone ate an attack in throw guaranteed situations. I didn't count, but it sure seemed like anyone trying to DTEG, or EDTEG was not getting the guard out.

Perhaps it's just coincidence - as the sample size so far is 2 clips comprising of about 8 matches. Perhaps the mechanics of the throw escape window has been altered and people's timing is way off.

<font color="yellow">.cheers.</font>

 

Re: Examining the value of the throw escape/dodge in FT

I rescind my commentary about he importance of TEs being more difficult. Sorry. It was due in large part to the competition of the area I was playing in, and I guess I had only looked at a small portion of the media and drew conclusions too early. Sorry yet again. However the importance of observation still seemed present in high level environments.

Today I went to Akihabara, the electronic haven of Japan, and played FT in the FT floor. Its any entire floor dedicated to FT.

I played my fair share of games there, and watched for about an hour or so additionally. Although the players there were of MUCH higher caliber than what I had previously been playing, the ability to TE was NOT a make or break skill.

It was present, and it clearly helped, but not nearly to the degree that the ability to effectively dodge did. The strongest player there, a female Jacky player, had an uncanny ability to both dodge, and sabaki 1 out of everything 3 attacks, which gave her an 11 game win streak. TE was a very minor part of her game, although throws were used against her fairly often.

I feel, from the videos I`ve seen, as well as the player`s I`ve watched, that the ability to throw escape has been diminished in importance. However, these are just my observations, and as you pointed out Kiwe, I am by no means an expert on the situation. I just trying to start conversation about a trend I`ve noticed.

Happy gaming!

Dagger

 

Im just guessing here but it could be because the game is new and the players haven't learned all the mechanics and adapted to the new stuff.
I mean it could have something to do with players going back to simpler methods (like P->throw, which is hard to escape, at least I think so =) ) since they are not used to the new game mechanics and thus do a lot more of safe stuff (instead of going for major damage). Or prehaps they block more (and hence get thrown more) since opposite nitaku is discouraged in FT (considering the Red Counter) and they havent adopted to other defensive techniques (ETEG:s are dangerous if predicted so you cant do these to often)?

 

Re: Examining the value of the throw escape/dodge in FT

The point is..... when you are playing against high level players, you can not throw under normal circumstances. Because they are all doing throw escapes. Chances are, tou are not going to throw after blocking a throw guaranteed move, you are not going to throw after gaining mid advantage. (This is not absolute, since you will be risking different options) The key here is that when people are attempting throws, it should be at a time when people are not expecting or can not physically input throw escapes correctly. For example, delaying a throw and throwing when people are just standing up, throwing on mC, throwing as a way to beat a delayed attack, etc... This is why when people do a throw, you don't see it escaped very much.. This is doesn't mean that people don't throw under the obvious situations. There was a clip recently where one of the players exploited another player not throw escaping throw guaranteed moves. When people know that you are not throw escaping in those easy places, it's almost like free damage. This is why it's ridiculous to think you don't need to throw escape.

In a way, you are benefiting from people over estimating your ability. If you are not throw escaping, you will eat big damage after every throw guaranteed move, after every dodge, after every p or dp-> throw attempt, etc.....

 

Dagger, soy here. Bought an FT card today and played a few games as Jacky. I want to meet up w/ you (tomorrow?) and you can show me some of the ropes. Must.. get.. scenester... Jacky... attire!

PS: Sorry for the thread crashing, I just knew you'd check here. Call me.