Few quick newbie questions re: Evo Akira (not about the knee :P)

Hey all, I've recently been spending my off time playing Evo for the PS2 leveling up various characters in Quest mode, and I have a couple questions regarding Akira and a few of his moves:

1. - I've been scouring the various Akira documents on this site pretty well, but I haven't been able to find much information on good follow-ups to Akira's mid punch -> backstep... -> + from the game's Tactics Advice mode seems pretty safe, as well as -> backdash, but I'd like to know if you guys could reccommend any other good follow-ups to the mid punch -> backstep.

2. ~ - I play VF4 mostly on a PS2 pad, and I can do the single palm or modified single palm just fine, but I can't figure out the trick to reliably bring out the elbow follow-up. Do I need to hold forward after the palm while entering the second ? Can the elbow follow-up only be done during a modified single palm? Is specific timing on the input required? I'm confused...

3. DLC - I can do the first two hits easily, but I haven't been able to get the bodycheck out, and I'm pretty sure I'm hitting all the switches properly to get +. What's the trick to all three hits? Do I need to buffer everything insanely fast (specifically, how long is the input window open for the whole string?), or do I need to take it semi-slow and get everything buffered rhythmically (like, say, hitting just as + connects, then hitting the + in + just as the connects)?

Any productive input on these moves is welcome. If I inadvertantly said anything stupid, I apologize in advance.

 

Here's some strings

+-->+ - easy and safe

+-->+ - fast, might score a CH

+-->crouch dash in, ++ - shoulder ram goes through low and some elbows, so this is a good option.

+-->+ - safe, solid offensive series

+-->+ - yoho ducks/goes through some stuff some stuff, plus it's a lot of damage

+-->SPOD - flashy

I don't play Akira tho, and I don't really see good Akira's ever use the + or the canned backstep much at all. It's not bad tough.

The elbow followup has a very small window of input (known as a just-frame - ever play Tekken 4? /versus/images/graemlins/confused.gif). Just hit when the palm hits/is guarded. Just keep doing it, you'll get the timing down easily.

Try going into training mode and turning on slow-mo. Practice doing ++ ACCURATELY first, then build up speed. The last part doesn't need to be done that fast - I'd say by the time + hits, you'll be between hitting and for the bodycheck.

BTW there are a lot of good players in Florida, you should track them down and make them teach you VF.

 

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Dandy_J said:

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I don't play Akira tho, and I don't really see good Akira's ever use the + or the canned backstep much at all. It's not bad tough.

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Really? Interesting. I'm still getting into the groove with Akira basics, so I often find myself using the mid punch -> backstep to put the opponent into a defensive mode while I think of something safe to try on them.

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The elbow followup has a very small window of input (known as a just-frame - ever play Tekken 4? /versus/images/graemlins/confused.gif). Just hit when the palm hits/is guarded. Just keep doing it, you'll get the timing down easily.

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So it IS a just-frame attack. Thanks for pointing that out, now that I know how it works, it'll be a lot easier for me to know what to look for when I practice bringing it out.

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Try going into training mode and turning on slow-mo. Practice doing ++ ACCURATELY first, then build up speed. The last part doesn't need to be done that fast - I'd say by the time + hits, you'll be between hitting and for the bodycheck.

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Thanks, I'll definitely give that a try next time I fire up Evo.

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BTW there are a lot of good players in Florida, you should track them down and make them teach you VF.

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Yeah, I found that kinda funny when I found that out, considering with most other fighting games, FL is kind of a tiny blip on the map of high-level play compared with, say, Cali and NY. Maybe sometime I'll get a chance to find some good Evo players in the area and learn some tricks.

Thanks for the help, Dandy_J, I appreciate it.

 

1.) I haven't got much to say about this, as I use it very little. I think the problem is that instant followups are useful only if opponent is being aggressive after the backstep. But this happens so rarely.. Most opponents I play (Both human and CPU) wont attack after the backstep and nobody really falls for the
+ counter. Then you need to dash or CD to close the gap again, giving opponent a chance to a time his attack better.. I'd say + or slighty delayed mixed with dash n' throw etc. Mostly just crouch dash in and see what the opponent does.

2.) ~ - A specific timing is indeed required, and even though I don't know the exact frame-window, I think this move could be described as a just-frame move. I think that in theory, the second is supposed to be inputted at the moment the single palm () connects (The follow-up SDE is only possible if single palm hits or is blocked), but I've gotten it to work by just learning a specific rhythm. Try to input the second when Akira has just started to extend his arm for the single palm. And don't get frustrated as this is indeed a rather difficult move to pull out consistently..

3.) I had similar problems with Dragonlance back during the time of VF3.. Go into free training and set display settings to show your input commands. Then you can see what you're doing wrong. You need to input the whole shebang rather quickly and without any pauses. Especially you should learn to input --+,, -- part without any pause. Don't wait to see if moves connect or come out, just buffer away. It's not necessary to input "insanely fast" but quickly enough.

Hope this helps.

EDIT: I'm so slow to type... Didn't see the other answers.

- Manji

 

To both Dandy J and Manji: It's not a just frame move and if he is using a pad, like he said, he sure as hell needs to input the commands "insanely fast" so I don't know how you both can say he doesn't (I wish you goodluck in using the DLC conistently on your Pad man).
And further about ; the reason imo it isn't used as much is cause if you get it on MC against someone it's +5 frames (stagger on a croucher) and you don't have time to tell what kind of hit it is if you intend on going back after it as you have to do the backcommand to soon (you don't have time to react to the hit before command input).

Manji; Where's your session rapport at? (Couldn't attend the gathering but want sessionrapports damn it!) /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

Just a few additions on what has been said.

,
Standing palm beats out an elbow after Akira hops back, because Akira's out of the elbow range. Even though they don't do anything and block the standing palm, it couldn't be safer than this(+1).

, throw or single palm elbow
When it hits and you hop back, you can do a crouch
dash forward dash into throw or single palm elbow guessing game. If you want to be safer, go for a guard break(++).

For a consistent command input, a stick is required for Akira. I can do DLC consistently on pad, but if I would have put that much amount of practice for DLC on stick, I would be a better player by now in general. Just my 2 cents. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

I know that ~ is not a Just-1-frame move. For practical purposes it however might be. Would you mind telling the exact size of the window?

First: I know for a fact that it's possible to play perfectly with just a pad. It's just unthinkable for us stick-players. Really needs somebody who hasn't even touched a stick before. However, there seems to be emerging a new generation of PS2-players who use pad by default, so we can't ignore that.

second: I can't talk about how to use a pad, so I'm only talking from my personal experience as a stick-user.

I know that I'm not inputting DLC commands "insanely fast". Therefore I can't really recommend doing so for anybody else. The meaning of "Insanely fast" depends on who is talking anyway.

: Unless it hits with a counter, I can't really see many "safe" followups, after all, it's -1 even on normal hit..

As to my session report, I'm just too lazy.. Actually I can't remember how the tournaments went match-by-match, and I don't want to give false information.

- Manji

 

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ManjiMaru said:

I know that ~ is not a Just-1-frame move. For practical purposes it however might be. Would you mind telling the exact size of the window?

- Manji

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Best way to do it is just to press second when first hits, or is guarded. I think this is the real way to do it.

 

For I think the frame "window" is 17 or 19 frames after the initial hit...well there abouts anyway. Its the same window of time as a hit-throw.

The is probably easiest if you do it to the sound of Akiras grunts. Watching a demonstartion of the cpu do it will give you a feel for the timing that you need (generally press as Akira makes the Huu! sound).

btw it is DEFINATELY possible to whip out DLCs on a pad using various configs. Elite (a player in our group) does them no sweat. If anyone wants help about doing DLC on a pad then they should PM him.

 

f+P,b is basically a free mid move...if you get it blocked the opponent can't do much. Probably the best follow up would be a back crouchdash and if the opponent tries to attack you, you hit their whiffed attack with a shoulder ram. If they do nothing then it's a pretty even situation. You can also use it to bait a downed opponent to whiff a rising attack...I've seen it done in a couple vids. I don't see any other uses for this move...Akira's non-EVO f+P was much better.

 

The way I lerned was by watching the cpu do it until I established the rythym in my head. http://www.crystalbargains.com/GetSome.wmv

 

On the subject of using a pad rather than a stick:

I own a stick now that I've gotten back into fighting games (I played them casually for years but never really got into them until about a year or two ago), but I've played them on pads much longer and more skillfully than I have on sticks, so I usually default to pads when I first pick up a game.

I've been practicing with my stick at home, but I'm still learning basic technique and reflexes...rapid inputs (, , ) still don't come as naturally to me as they do on a pad, and to a lesser extent, I still have a bit of trouble going cleanly from pressing one direction, back to neutral, then to a different direction rapidly enough for certain moves(i.e. various characters' +, Wolf's +). Aside from that, though, I'm doing all right.

I must say, though, in some ways VF is one of the easiest games for inexperienced players to play on a stick that I know of...being able to do a standing 270/260 joystick motion without running the risk of accidentally jumping like in 2D games is pretty nice.

The stick I use is an Impact V-Series from redoctane.com. I don't really know how good in the long run it is for VF play, I've only just started using it, and I bought it mostly for play with 2D games like Capcom vs. SNK 2 and Guilty Gear X2.

Also, thanks again to everybody for all the help in this thread. Akira's not my best character, but I seem to be doing all right with him, and it's always nice to have help when learning hard-to-learn-with-high-reward characters like Akira.

If I can extort one more newbie question from you guys, I want to know this: what is fuzzy guard? I've searched to no avail, and it doesn't seem to be listed in any of the newbie threads around here.

 

Fuzzy guarding

 

If Sriders guide is too much for you...

Fuzzy guarding is essentially hitting a "sweet spot" between standing and holding and crouching and holding it . When done right you can block mid moves and avoid throws, seemingly cheating. Its not cheating at all but a very skillful form of defence.

 

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LM_Akira said:

If Sriders guide is too much for you...

Fuzzy guarding is essentially hitting a "sweet spot" between standing and holding and crouching and holding it . When done right you can block mid moves and avoid throws, seemingly cheating. Its not cheating at all but a very skillful form of defence.

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I read about this in the thread you PMed me, but I'm afraid I can't quite picture it yet -- so to fuzzy guard, you basically alternate between and rapidly to try and defend against a mid attack or throw with that "sweet spot" where the mid gets blocked and the throw whiffs?

If that's the trick you're talking about, then I think I finally understand what that is.

 

Well...its only important in certain circumstances but yes you're more or less on the right lines. You could think of it as "bobbing up and down holding ". Although you wouldn't necessarily be doing it loads you'd be say holding for a set number of frames for it to work.

If you think about it, holding and standing leaves you open to throws but blocks highs and mids. Crouching and holding ducks highs and throws is open to mids and low throws and guards lows. In between standing with and crouching with you can guard mid attacks and "duck under" throws ie avoid standing throws. Its a kinda feel thing. You can apply it to pressuring a downed opponent say. For example you knock over an opponent and crouch over them with guard held as you expect your opponent to come at you with a rising attack. You can guess between high or mid or...you can attempt to fuzzy guard the attack by standing slightly as the attack comes in if it is a mid attack and you react quick enough. If it is a low one you will want to stay crouched. So provided you have a feel for where the sweet spot is you should be able to switch guard between standing and crouching and stop your opponents rising attack. Well thats the idea anyway. Its is useful in several other circumstances. Myke has done a few good articles on it on the forum somewhere.

 

Actually fuzzy guarding is nothing like what you described...EVO's challenge mode does a pretty good job of showing you how to do it...i think it's called motion cut, where you need to guard Akira's double palm, low back fist or duck a throw after a -1f(blocked P) or -2f(P,K hit) situation. I think it might also apply to higher disadvantages but only when you're backturned. Anyways, I think Sriders posts did a really good job of describing what fuzzy guarding is.

In a -1f situation, you press and hold d+G...this will put you in a full crouch in 7 frames, thereby avoiding an immediate throw...if they don't throw you'll just let go of down to block a mid attack...low attacks are generally slow so those can be blocked on reaction.

With a -2f situation, instead of holding d+G you have to do a forward crouch dash as that puts you in a crouch in 6 frames, just enough time to duck a throw...the rest is the same as in the -1f situation.

 

I had the same problem with pulling of DLC consistentantly, i could do +, just fine, but could never get + to come out. the strategy that i use is do , and do really fast, pretend that i am dashing.

 

Check re-charreds-sighs Akira faq. If you crouch dash into an opponent whos using a rising mid attack and cancel it with guard to block the attack then you've just fuzzy guarded it. This is the point at which your making use of motion cut. Like I said its useful in several other situations like you described. I didn't have time to go into them.

 

After much practice I can pull off the DLC very consistently, not very hard to do once you get the timing down.