Fighting Game Netcode

VF5 is pretty sweet, i've had 2/3 bar matches with some Japanese folks and while it wasn't perfect it was playable.

SFIV's code is right up there as well, i've had 3/5 bar matches with Jap folk with 2/5 being the norm. I don't bother playing anyone unless their 4 bars and above but will often make concessions for 3 bar japanese. Though I get way more lag spikes in SFIV than VF5 it can be really frustrating for something to be reduced to unplayable and then still give me a 4 bar connection rate after the match is done!

GGPO let's you connect with most of the world, for some reason my stupid laptop doesn't wanna run it properly so I can't and end up on 2Dfighter to play some sweet SFIII but everyone at my local SF meetup plays online and loves it, the rollback system they use to minimalize lag works really well and i'd hope that when Blazblue CS comes out next year pays for the code.

Capcom bought the rights to use GGPO code before SFIV was implemented giving rumors that SFIV's online was gonna be unbeatable! Capcom still have the rights to use it and there are rumors that if/when SFIII3S makes it's way to XBL & PSN that GGPO will be used.

Should VF5R be released with team battles etc for online netcode, I really think it could be another prestige building episode for the quality of VF for console. ATM VF #1 SFIV #2 and BlazBlue #3

 

My computer is trash atm but I get sweet education on 3s (lovin it atm always wanted to play) over ggpo and 3s. I get near flawless matches with over small double digit pings with ggpo and 2df. Better than consoles atm.

 

I was actually going to cite the session you posted where you played a Japanese Shun player in VF5:Online for a long period and said that the connection was adequate despite being across continents.

In my opinion, all things being equal between SFIV and VF5, meaning the same connections, same distance apart, VF5 is absolutely more playable online than SFIV. Sure both games suffer from input delay, which makes offline tactics more difficult, and puts an emphasis on a different set of tactics (lag abuse), I find that the difference between offline and online SFIV is greater compared to VF5 under the best online circumstances (minimal lag and input delay). And the worse the connections get I do not see SFIV being able to hold its own next to VF5.

Judging from my experience, the netcode for VF5 is clearly more optimized than SFIV, and both of those games are leaps and bounds ahead of T6BR and T5DRO's netcodes. There is a lot less going on in SFIV, the netcode (or online experience) could and should be better than VF5, but in my opinion it is not.

If you want to factor in games that are primarily 2D you have all sorts of good and bad. The bad would be the original XBL title SF:AE and KOFXII. The good would be MvC2 HD, ST:HDR, and Blazblue. And then of course there is the pinnacle of online play that is GGPO.

AE over XBL was pretty terrible. I only rented KOFXII and played online for a few matches (this was post patch I believe) and the lag was crippling. Those games aren't nearly as good as ST:HDR which had tons of hype for its online playability.

The problem with ST:HDR (and MvC2 HD) is that what you see on screen isn't actually what is happening. The game puts a blanket over what is actually happening to try and visually hide rollbacks. So what you see in front of you might not actually be what is happening. Often times in ST:HDR I'll hit my opponent with a cross-up, watch them get dizzied, only to see them standing and blocking a second later because the game rolled everything back. However sometimes the game hides smaller rollbacks and you'll see major rollbacks like characters teleporting all over the place.

The other thing with ST:HDR is that the game was programmed by an amateur company called Backbone, a company not prepared to port a Dreamcast game to the PS3/360. The game had zero polish online. When the game first launched there were so many problems it was laughable. If you selected Claw online the game would disconnect almost every time (meaning Claw was basically unplayable online). If somehow you got into a match with Claw there was more to worry about, if Claw lost his claw the game would drop often, and if Claw did a fake wall dive the game would almost always disconnect or fail to synchronize after the match. If you selected a character with the start button the game would disconnect almost every time. If you pressed any buttons at all during the loading screen after character select the game would disconnect. The game also was plagued by lifebar glitches (lifebars would show random life and not function properly), sound errors (random sound effects playing throughout matches, music wouldn't load), and black screens (meaning the sprites and backgrounds would fail to appear online so you'd be staring at a black screen). SUPER flashes often fail to appear (this happens offline as well). And the PS3 version has been accused often (Alex Valle and many other top SF2 players have been pretty vocal about it) of dropping inputs and having other major bugs both online and offline.

So while ST:HDR has good netcode during the match, extraneous factors can disrupt the online experience, and make playing the game less fun than it should be. Getting a solid connection in HDR is great but Backbone's awful job at optimizing the game detracts from the online experience despite having a solid netcode. The difference between online and offline HDR is not nearly as large as the difference for a game like VF5. But HDR's netcode still isn't great and the game isn't polished at all. Thelo, an online player for HDR on XBL, reached Top 8 at EVO2009 using Honda. So online isn't totally useless for HDR (unlike KOFXII or T6BR).

GGPO's magic is that it uses savestates in its netcode for arcade roms and makes them playable online. And by playable I mean very playable.

GGPO for games like ST is quite amazing. It's the best netcode for 2D FGs by far. Games feel very smooth. I can play people from NY to California and the matches are great. Even connections to Japan function at a fantastic level. Some of the absolute best Japanese ST players have been known to frequent GGPO and even Kuroda of 3S fame has been seen online playing GGPO (he's been playing quite often lately).

While Capcom did license GGPO they found that implementing it for SFIV was not possible. It's been stated on SRK and in #Capcom that for games like SFIV, VF5, or T6BR, that incorporating the best elements of GGPO (such as the use of save states) into those games' netcodes is just not feasible. However for 2D games like HDR or even Blazblue the possibility exists (though companies have yet to try it).

You just made that up though. It's obvious that Capcom has little interest in optimizing the netcode for their online games. HDR had only a beta for XBL and not the PSN, and the PSN only demo for MvC2 HD didn't even have online functionality. We also know that Ponder and others responsible for GGPO were clamoring for Capcom to use it for HDR and Capcom balked.

Also the majority of online play testing for SFIV was done in Japan. Anyone who knows about internet connections should know that the average speed for internet in major urban areas in Japan is ten times if not even more faster than the average speed in major cities in the United States. So when Capcom is testing SFIV online from X-city to Y-city in Japan and finding that the matches are playable it's not surprising. Then it's also not surprising that when you take that netcode and play from one coast of the U.S. to the other with far worse internet connections that the playability of the game decreases significantly.

3S:HDR isn't even a rumor. It's wishful thinking from fans. If I made a thread at SRK titled "CvS2 HDR with GGPO?!!!" does that make it a rumor or complete fan speculation at best? It took two years to make HDR from DC ST...imagine how long it would take to redraw and rebalance 3S. Maybe five years? Probably not going to happen.

I don't know how Sega tested VF5: Online, I had stopped playing VF at that point, but I do vaguely remember a player (Fuudo?) playing a demo of VF5:Online and saying that while he could feel the input delay, the game was playable for him. So Sega (or Microsoft in reality) must have done some competent testing to end with the amazing results.

Blazblue's netcode is far superior to VF5 and SFIV because there is less going on. 2D games have easier times transitioning online simply because there is less data being tossed around. You can't possibly insinuate that BB's online is less playable than VF5 or SFIV compared respectively to their offline counterparts. I don't like BB as a game but its online play is very good.

Lastly, I'll rank the netcodes, from top (best) to bottom (worst), based on how playable the game is online compared to being played offline. I suggest everyone make a list with some sort of qualifier and then we'll see what the consensus is on VFDC.

1. GGPO (absolute best without question)
2. Blazblue
3. HDR / MvC2 (suffers from rollbacks)
4. VF5 (noticeable input delay)
5. SFIV (very noticeable input delay)
6. SC4
7. T6BR (terrible)
8. T5DRO (unplayable)
9. KOFXII (/me head explodes)

So while VF5 is behind Blazblue and HDR/MvC2 HD it's only because as a more complicated game it's harder to take online. Sega really did do an excellent job with VF5 Online.


Oh and by Sega I mean Microsoft of course because they designed the netcode.

 

I think a game's buffer system can have alot of weight on how well it can play online too.

Also, an aside from someone's ISP, I think the condition of their consoles contribute to their experience in online play. If your console is dusty and screwed up, it cripples your own gaming experiences. So make sure your consoles are in tip top.

 

That's why I specified 'all things being equal' (connection wise) when comparing games playability online.

Problems arise when people are using wireless microphones to communicate online (this adds tremendous potential for lag spikes over the PSN). Even wired microphones or headsets add to the data that is transmitted between players furthering the potential for problems to arise. Another problem is that people will connect their consoles via router, and to compound that problem, some people insist on using a connection to their cable modem that is wireless.

I remember when we first formed an SRK clan for Metal Gear Online 2.0 that everyone noticed how badly we would lag when everyone was using bluetooth headsets. I switched to a wired USB microphone and the lag on my end disappeared instantly. The problem is that on the PSN people love to use bluetooth devices and they don't know that those devices cause absurd amounts of lag for everyone.

When I search for P2P games, such as fighting games online, I almost always try to filter games where microphones or communication devices are disabled. For games like MGO or Fat Princess or any other team based games it's usually beneficial to have teammates who are voice-chat capable but it often comes at the cost of lag. I wish SONY forced wired devices as the standard for the PSN or they lowered the bitrate of the audio being transferred.

 

SF4 and VF5 are almost on the same line when it comes to lag, both games lag noticeably/horribly when I play to the states, both function pretty well within Europe. I can't really say much about Blazblue because there arent any European players (the game isn't sold in Europe) and US matches lag horribly. Im pretty sure that Blazblue is up there in terms of netcode though.
Friendly matches with other Finns were very good in BB, but same can again be said for SF4 and VF5 as well. (Same can NOT be said for T6online)

GGPO or other emulator stuff I havent used at all so I cannot comment.

I havent really played DR much but I would say that pre-patch T6 was definitely worse than DROnline. These are all the online fighting games I have played. I cant imagine a game having worse netcode than T6. Ive heard stories though.

 

I really wish they would show you your ping. It would solve a lot of problems with joining laggy matches.


Not all green bars are the same.


As for what fighting game I think has the best netcode, I'd probably have to say VF5. Although, I do usually only play with the same 10-20 people on it. If there were as many players on VF as there are on Sf4 I'm sure I would think a little differently.

DOA4's netcode was also pretty good, I've played matches where there were 4 people in the room (all from the UK) and there was barely any lag.

 

Im also interested in what kind of ping does a turquoise/green/yellow etc bars represent..

Anyways I tried some random matches now, and Im not sure how much the quality has improved. It might appear to be improved because I can now limit the search.

TEKKEN 6 HAS THE FIRST MATCHMAKING THAT ALLOWS LIMITING SEARCH TO REGIONS LIKE EUROPE.

This is massive I think the T6 matchmaking and lobby are now officially the best out of all fighting games. Im still not sure about the quality of the connection itself, it has improved, but it still lags randomly and can cause random disconnections. So far I havent run into complete diashows like I did pre-patch even though Ive had 3-4 bar connections only. So I guess it has improved a lot. Not enough to catch SF4 or VF5 yet but its getting there.

 

They need an entire server list that you can arrange by things like connection, name and region. You should be able to toggle the visibility of ping.

I was always annoyed by VF5 only ever showing three matches.


What is the T6 lobby like? Is it as incredibly awesome as the DOA4 lobbies? Because being a penguin with a gold jacket was pretty pimp.