Follow Up on previous Post.

Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by Akira Yukii, Aug 15, 2001.

  1. Akira Yukii

    Akira Yukii Active Member

    Alright. Apparantly some people were "perturbed" by my previous post. So I've kindly decided to clarify several things.

    Plot matters. To some perhaps not, opinion appreciated, but to most I would assume so. Imagine, FINALLY seeing why the hell everyone is there. A tip. Plot bring motivation. Motovation brings a better more seasoned fighter. The gamer can only benefit from a plot.

    Secondly.
    The combo system in virtua fighter. One person mentioned "compared to what". I laughed. MANY GAMES. Even the crap in a hat "Killer Instinct" had a better combo system.
    a good game with a good system is probably MArvel Versus Capcom, or Street Fighter III. Improvements can be made, and Sega will probably make them.

    I'm not exploiting any hate for the VF series. I could drag on about the good things in the game; but who wants to hear that crap. It's boring.
    Focusing on wrongs makes rights.
    I hope I eased the tension a little bit.

    -Z'

    In fighting games, it's always better to fight defensively. This allows taking advantage of jump ins with a nice fulfilling uppercut special.
     
  2. uk_kid

    uk_kid Well-Known Member

    I disagree about VF's combo system - it's brilliantly balanced. Please explain what exactly you dislike about it. As in other games, such as Tekken, VF has a large amount of canned combos (combos already preprogrammed, if you like). However, VF's 'combo system' also allows for a huge amount of self-made combos, which encourages the player to try out new things, experiment and generally feel like they have genuine skill, rather than just memory-based skill (or, as in the case of Killer Instinct, memory and dexterity-based 'skill').
     
  3. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    For starters, VF has a plot. So what I'm wondering is, are you meerly asking for ending movies for each character?

    Second, I really like VF's combo system. Even now I'm finding a lot of new combos. However, combos are only a small part of the game, but I'll explain why I like the combos in VF. I am under the impression that you like long lasting combos that continue on and on and on.... that's fine, to each their own.

    However, VF's combo system is one in which there is a lot of open room to figure out more combos, once you figure the system. It's not simple plug and chug to the degree of say, Tekken. It's no V-ism or anything like that either. You have to work hard for a lot of combos and much of us appreciate the technicality in them. VF2 has some pretty insane combos if you like constant floating and what not as well.

    What I like:
    1) You have to work hard to expand your combo library. Eventually, they are much more appreciated because of the relative difficulty in timing and buffering. The combo system feels very much in place with the game and represents certain technical aspects of the game. A tough exercise in situation creation (stance, distance, counter hit if necessary, slope & terrain & walls in VF3), timing, dexterity, and buffering inputs. As opposed to built in strings that last forever.
    2) The main reason I like Virtua Fighter's combo system is that it's a part of the fast paced flow of the game, instead of hindering the game into a "dial a combo for 15-20 seconds and wasting time." To me, the beauty in VF is the intensity of the matches combined with the constant struggle over the initiative. If combos were exhagerated as in MvC2 or Killer Instinct, the struggle for the initiative would lose its flavor and the intensity is taken out for boring eye-candy. VF's combo system adds to its experience and "highly technical gameplay" (as some put it) by being a part of the struggle and not lopsiding it.

    -Chanchai
     
  4. Yamcha

    Yamcha Well-Known Member

    1) If you're playing a fighting game and worrying about a plot, then you're missing the point. Go play MK then.

    2) As my colleagues have mentioned, VF allows for both simple canned combos and "on the fly" combos determined by the situation, allowing a huge amount of freedom to the player. The comparison to Killer Instinct is laughable, a game which tacks on extra hits for you after you connect with a predetermined sequence of buttons. There's a overwhelming emphasis in America in judging a player's skill with his combo-ing ability, which definitely needs to go.

    3) Fighting defesively is better? Not necessarily. How many high caliber players play machi? Look at some Japanese matches (especially Third Strike) and witness the destruction.
     
  5. Jason Cha

    Jason Cha Well-Known Member

    What a load of shit.

    For a supposed Akira player to complain about the combo system?

    Having watched John Choi and Alex Valle play the various Capcom games I do have a lot of respect for the challenge of setting up and hitting the big combos in those games.

    But Jesus, obviously you've never done a good meatplow or BG, SJK, p, p, knee.
    Pretty fucking fulfilling when you finally hit them.

    If you value combos by the difficulty/reward payoff ratio I'd say the combos in VF are just fine. Do you know anything about buffer windows? Or exactly how long you need to hold a CD in VF3 to be considered in crouch? In terms of demanding precise joystick movements with strict timing to nail combos, VF is incredibly fulfilling.

    I remember the first time I hit RBC, dash in knee, bodycheck in VF1... No, the combo system is quite robust as it is.

    -Jason
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    This is pure comedy. This Z' character has very little idea as to what he is talking about. Either that, or he is legitimately insane. He refers to both Marvel VS. Capcom and SFIII as a "good game" with a "good system". That statement alone is enough to disregard anything he has to say when it comes to fighting games. Some people are eternally chained to the Capcom 2D fighter. The fully 3d environment confuses and frightens the 2D fighter and forces them to break the monotony of dragon punch/projectile/jumping fierce/supercombo. The Capcom games, while slightly different in presentation, are still remarkably similar. My guess is that this clown has made vain attempts to play VF but was either stunned by the lack of easy 12 hit combos or frightened by the 3d environ. VF is the DEEPEST fighting game that has ever been released. Since VF3 came out here in 1996, I have been playing mainly with ONE character. To this day, near 5 years later, there are still new things that I am learning. SFIII and MvsC will continue to please the fools who get stimulated at the sight of Ryu and his dragon punches just as VF will continue to please those who want something more from a fighting game: depth, difficulty and a wide range of possibilities. There are reasons that John Choi and Alex Valle can't play VF well at all. Btw, from what I understand, Alex and John both lost to some Japanese SF players in a recent tournament. At any rate, you can keep your infinite combos and shotokan fetishes. I'm going to side with the Smithsonian on this one.

    I am the ETPharaoh
     
  7. GLC

    GLC Well-Known Member

    "I don't like this, I don't like that..." - if you hate VF so much, why the fuck are you posting here at all?
     
  8. Llanfair

    Llanfair Well-Known Member

    Clear your mind...breathe

    Hmm...I sense some frustration in this one.

    What is it, really?

    Is it because you couldn't pull off those combos that others could?

    I'm betting likely.

    Don't get all frustrated and blow your steam here on a forum - just sit back, relax, and practice more. It'll be good for you.

    cheers,

    <font color=white>Llanfair</font color=white>
    <font color=orange>Booyah daddy mac! I'm stylin!</font color=orange>
     
  9. Daniel Thomas

    Daniel Thomas Well-Known Member

    I'm with everybody else on this one. Just what exactly is your experience with VF, or the fighting genre? And why this expectation of instant gratification? I can think of no great videogame, no matter how simple to grasp (Tetris, Pac-Man, etc.), that someone will instantly master with nothing more than mashing buttons. Good heavens, what would you do if faced with a Defender machine?

    To obsess endlessly over "combos" is to reduce the genre of the fighting game to nothing more than channel surfing. And you already have a remote control for that. As far as I'm concerned, Killer Instinct is the worst fighter ever conceived for that very reason.

    Listen, son, I have two words for you: Karate Champ.

    And as for finding a better plot, well, that's what the movies are for. Go rent out Casablanca or something by the Marx Brothers, or read a book.

    -----
    "One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How the elephant got in my pajamas, I don't know."
    -- Groucho Marx
     
  10. Jason Cha

    Jason Cha Well-Known Member

    Um, having played both John Choi and Alex Valle in VF3, I have to say a few things about that.

    #1, John is undoubtedly one of the best VF players in the bay area, and regularly has 10 win streaks against me and Hans.

    #2, for the brief time Alex fooled around with VF3, it was scary what that man could do. We'd play, and he'd ask me, what's the throw escape motion for that throw you're doing. I'd tell him, then I'd never hit that throw against him again.

    -Jason
     
  11. Fishie

    Fishie Well-Known Member

    You sound an awfull lot like those people years ago who claimed the Tekken games were better then VF 2 on saturn becouse you had all those extra s .
    Hey consider me old fashioned but isnt the purpose of a fighting game to FIGHT and not to do the same tedious thing over and over again in order to get some extra s ?
    I rather liked the VF2 approach on Saturn ( and VF3 on DC as well for that matter , not that I played that much on DC ) , im a fighters dream come trough , play me .
    No shitty distractions or whatever , just the game ( and what a game it is ) .
     
  12. Drunken_Master

    Drunken_Master Well-Known Member

    heh the ten hit combos are easy in tekken (well a few of them are may be a bit hard) and you dont need any big combos in a fighting game anyway. I got KI on the snes the other week as l loved that game as a kid but i cant play it for long now as its boring with its crappy 21 hit combos that are piss easy to do

    'Strong body but a weak mind' Sam Seed from Drunken Masters
     

Share This Page