Frame Advantage

Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by Myke, Mar 10, 2002.

  1. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    So you're looking at frame data and realise that your guarded attack leaves you with 2 frames advantage. So what next?

    The following list, loosely translated from the Blue Book, provides a general rule of thumb for what is possible after X frames of advantage.

    <font color=orange>1 frame</font color=orange>
    Having an advantage of 1 frame isn't anything to get excited over. With your 1 frame advantage, if you attempt an elbow, your opponent's d+P will beat you.

    <font color=orange>2 frame</font color=orange>
    With 2 frames advantage, faster elbows will beat your opponent's d+P.

    <font color=orange>3 ~ 4 frame</font color=orange>
    With 3 to 4 frames of advantage, all elbows will beat the opponent's d+P or standing P. But your elbow is still open to sabaki/reversal/inashi.

    <font color=orange>5 ~ 7 frame</font color=orange>
    With 5 to 7 frames of advantage, you are in an ideal position to force a 50/50 guessing game (nitaku). All knees will beat d+P. This is when your opponent should be using advanced defensive techniques (like, ETEG, etc).

    <font color=orange>8+ frame</font color=orange>
    With 8 or more frames advantage, your opponent is throw counterable. That is, you have a guaranteed throw opportunity, but of course your opponent may escape it. Also, in almost every throw counterable case, you should buffer your throw input before you recover.
  2. Yupa

    Yupa Well-Known Member

    Thanks Myke. Wow! There's content on VFDC.

    Akira's knee is throw counterable at -9 frames... as Myke said, buffer the counter throw in and you'll get it.
    Screw Akira! Why does he get the best knee in the game? Other's knees are at -12 disadvantage /versus/images/icons/tongue.gif
    Sarah's lunging knee is -8, but you can't get any floats to write home about with it... <grumble>
  3. Blondie

    Blondie Well-Known Member

    Good stuff Myke. Uhm, did you ban Lau_Abuser just so you could post this thread, and not feel bad? LOL. Anyway also wondering if there is an english version of the blue book, or will there be one?
  4. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    As far as I know, there won't be an English version of the Blue Book. But check out my recent post on The Blue Book to find out what's inside. As you know, it's all in Japanese, so unless you have a way of reading Japanese, or just want it for collection's sake, then I wouldn't recommend anyone buying it. Hopefully, VFDC will extract the good bits from it, and other sources, and present them to you in a timely fashion. Spotlite is working on a detailed Systems FAQ as we speak, and from what I've read so far, it's shaping up really nicely.
  5. ReCharredSigh

    ReCharredSigh Well-Known Member

    wow; never seen stuff that like before; good info.

    yupa, i'm assuming the guys @sega weighted akira's knee's recovery with difficulty, that's why it's hard to counter. i mean, you screw up, you either do a low kick or standing kick, and both are highly punishable if you get them to whiff. of course, this argument doesn't really make sense with his 3-hit strings, but those things are much easier to do compared to the knee in terms of consistency.
  6. akiralove

    akiralove Well-Known Member

    just a couple notes...

    Yupa, take heart in the fact that some of Sarah's best moves leave her with nice advantage when guarded, mainly those that go to the Flamingo. The only moves of Akira's that leave him with advantage when guarded are P and b,f+P (2 frames and 1 frame).

    something interesting about 2-frame advantage. If you have just 2 frame advantage, the oppt cannot avoid a throw with crouching guard. The time it takes to crouch+2 frames isn't fast enough to get to the crouch before a throw connects. In this case, the defender has to attack, right? forward crouching dash also works. guard, crouching guard, and dodge all leave you open. Unfortunately for me, Akira's DE leaves him at a 2 frame disadvantage when guarded.

    In fact, aside from the P, b,f+P, b,d/f+P, and K ALL of akira's moves leave him a 2 or more frames disadvantage. yikes.

  7. Yupa

    Yupa Well-Known Member

    Heh, I know... Sarah players really have nothing to complain about compared to what Sarah was in VF3tb. The initiative you can gain entering flamingo is sick... and the new fallen angel throw solves the problem with a lack of throw options.

    I just get jealous about similar moves sometimes... Akira's knee vs. Sarah's knee... Jacky's punt kick vs. Sarah's punt kick... grass is always greener... =)

    I play regularly against Shang who can do Akira's knee close to 100% of the time he wants it... I can't remember him ever NOT getting it. He uses it for okizeme sometimes... pain in the butt... and can add it in for variety in floats at will.
  8. Yupa

    Yupa Well-Known Member

    In fact, aside from the P, b,f+P, b,d/f+P, and K ALL of akira's moves leave him a 2 or more frames disadvantage. yikes.

    How about them apples Mr. Bungle!?

    I'm sorry..
    I couldn't resist after re-reading this thread ;>

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