Frame Data: Hitting on Different Active Frames

I'm wondering if I do an attack with multiple active frames and I hit on the second active frame. Do I add +1 to my hit, block, and counterhit framedata?

 

I'm not so sure on this and I don't think there's much info about it here.

Just done some testing and as far as I can see, you add the remainder of the active frames.

For example if a move is 4 active frames and it hits on the very last frame then the you add +3. I tested this with Akira and used with CPU set to block and counterattack with 2p.

has 4 active frames and is +3 on block but thanks to the extra +3 frames from it hitting on the last frame I was able to beat my opponents 2p with a 17f move, in this case + (release within 1 frame).

Also just tested it trying to beat the with an 18f move as the math says this should work too. Akira's also beats in this situation.

I'm pretty poor at explaining things and I discovered this on my own a long time ago so hope it makes sense.

 

If you mean advantage, then yes.

 

Depending upon which active frame lands, it could also alter whether moves are natural combos on guard/hit/counter hit and whether or not certain combos from launchers can be made.

 

I will try to say it more clearly.

Total frames of your attack are: execution frames + active frames + recovery frames. For the sake of example, lets look at Akiras dashing elbow.
execution: 14
active: 2
recovery: total= 36 - 16 = 20.

Note: the amounts of advantage on hit/block is dependant on how much hit/blockstun the move causes, so these numbers do not directly tell that. However, we know already the advantage of DE on block, its -5. This is when the move connects at pointblank range, in other words, during its first active frame, the 'normal' situation.

Now if you distance yourself properly, its possible to connect the move at its latter active frame making the first active frame miss the opponent just barely. This means the opponent will go into the blockstun 1 frame later (its still the same amount of blockstun) compared to how soon Akira will recover from the attack. 1 frame difference respectively.

In practise, this will make the DE behave as if it was -4 on block, so Akira recovers that one frame faster.

Whether its possible to make all attacks connect on latter hitframes, I do not know, since this is hitbox and character dependant (the attack traveling forward when its active). I do know, that generally in theory it is possible, and this does happen.

I dont think what you are describing: "different ending animation depending the attack whiffs the opponent", apply here, since the attack IS connecting, just not on the first active frames. I suspect its something like Wolf frankensteiner, if it doesnt connect during its active frames, Wolf will land his ass on the floor.

ps. Even if what I said wasnt completely correct, it is a theory and it satisfies what happens in reality accurately enough so it can be used.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Depending upon which active frame lands, it could also alter whether moves are natural combos on guard/hit/counter hit and whether or not certain combos from launchers can be made.</div></div>

What Lib said is technically correct. However, since you are basically connecting moves at max distance here, its possible that distance becomes a bigger factor in the combo than frame advantage.

What this technique can certainly be used for, is to make unsafe moves safer, and creating 'frame traps'.

Due to VF being a game with high mobility, this framethingy is rarely a factor in VF, since distancing yourself correctly is pretty hard with opponent moving so fast. Compare to 2D games where characters walk back and forward slowly with their 'footsies'.

pps. In 2D games this technique is known as "meaty attack", which means connecting an attack during its latter active frames in an okizeme situation. It can also make, for example, divekicks safer if you make them connect close to the ground.

 

Hum, interesting. If that is the result you test and the answer is positive. But how can we measure our moves hit on the very last frame? And how come this situation never been discussed before?

Manji, I think you were trying to say DE is -5 on block, not -4 based on the normal case you mentioned above.

 

Akai, pretty sure it's yellow Flash i'd have to check again though to be sure. I don't mind recording a few things and uploading them if anyone wants to clarify how it works, i'd need a few simple ways to test it though, most of the setups I tried to test it with last night were too difficult in dojo.

Like Myke said, I doubt it has any practical applications in a match.

 

Myke, i propose you have the VFdc site give a cookie to members that have visited the "frame guide" page.

That way when somebody reads the command lists, if they don't have the cookie the website should go "HELLO THERE IF THIS IS YOUR FIRST TIME READING THE COMMAND LISTS PLEASE LOOK UP THE TWO LINKS TO THE TOP RIGHT FOR AN EXPLANATION OF ABBREVIATIONS & HOW FRAMES WORK".

Another idea would be to have a text pop up when the mouse hovers over the name of each column explaining the abbreviations and/or giving a link to the frames guide & legend.

 

I guess it might be possible to learn to judge the correct distance on the screen. There is no visual cue to it, it would be just a feeling you would develop if you would use it a lot.

That said, I dont make real use of this but Ive always wondered why nobody has even tried to make more use of it.

 

I've been experimenting with this somewhat... I don't know how it works but this has been discussed before so I messed around with it a while back. Since Sarah's is -12 on block and has 9 active frames I figured it should be possible to reduce the advantage enough to make it safe with a bit of range or on oki. I've tested in the dojo to have blocked and then block/evade the opponents jab, which is possible but I need quite a bit of range especially for 10f jabs.

 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The confusion I have is how does the game system compute which active frame (active frame 1, 2, 3, etc) made contact and type of contact while also determining the amount of frames it will take for the character to "recover" from the move. The recovery of a move, at least based on the blogs, indicate recovery of a move is not constant. </div></div>

You do realize that system MUST already keep track of all that, since otherwise we wouldnt have any of the different hit types or advantages/disadvantages on block..

Once FS comes and if its training mode really has the frameadvantages visible, this should be simple to test. Until then, don't fuss about it. Its not like this is a terribly important technique.

 

Yeah, but if we could to create situation where the followup situation wouldnt match the frameadvantage displayed, then wed know that the system wasnt designed that way, but the trick would still work. The other option is that the system would actually show different frameadvantages. Or this issue wouldnt exist in FS. In any event, we would gain information.

 

Uh, wasn't even an ingame excercise in Evo to make Kage's 9K+G hit on later active frames during the opponent's tech roll to make it + frames instead of even?