Frame data question (guaranteed hit)

At what frame advantage is an attack typically guaranteed.

I believe the fastest move for most characters is P which is usually 12 frames. If at or above 12 frames, would this be guaranteed?

 

and for 11 frame jab characters, you'll need +11.

 

I'm gonna hijack this thread for my own frame data question.

If it takes 7 frames to be considered crouching, why can I duck a 12f high attack from -10 frames disadvantage but I can't duck a 10f throw from -4?

 

Ah ok, so the crouch animation is throwable, but not hittable. That makes sense now. I wish the game explained that somewhere though. I was sitting in training mode for far too long trying to figure out sideturned shenanigans, and just scratching my head as to why to CPU could duck certain setups.

Thanks for that @akai.

On another unrelated note, I've learned that the AI in training mode is glitched. If you use "Defensive Move 2" the AI will, for what looks like 1 frame, crouch and then evade. The AI was able to avoid setups that shouldn't have been avoidable.

Just an fyi...

 

Generally you worry about the speed of high jab which is 11 frames for Pai, Kage, Lion, and Eileen and 12 frames for everyone else. Everyone’s low jab is 12 frames and it is the standard interrupt move (think of the high jab as the standard disrup move).

Things that play with the mix:
• Sarah has 44P which is 10 frames, is high, and turns her around for a Back Turned game.

• Vanessa has 3P from defensive stance which is an incredibly short ranged uppercut.

• Pai has 3P+K which is a 12 frame mid and 2-handed so it beats many parries and reversals too.

• Brad has 4P+K which is a high elbow that is fuzzy safe on guard and is a Counter Hit Combo starter.

9 frames:
Wolf's 6P+G Throw (thanks @Lazy_Punches !)

10 frames:
Throws
Low Throws
Sarah 44P
Vanessa DS 3P

11 frames:
Pai P
Kage P
Lion P
Eileen P

12 frames:
2P (all)
P (for 15 characters—not Pai/Kage/Lion/Eileen)
Pai 3P+K
Brad 4P+K

 

Wolf's 6P+G is a 9 frame throw, thought it might be worth adding to your list, @Chanchai

Didn't know Vanessa's 3P was 10f, damn. I hope they add saving replays back into the game.

 

Thanks for following up. This game has an insane learning curve since you have to study each characters stregnth and weaknesses. But been making some progress. Did notice that advanced players seem to know all the opponents moves, and how to counter.

 

Don’t be afraid to try, the knowledge builds up with time. What makes it easier is starting with the common similar moves like jabs and elbows. Then PK because it’s a standard punisher. Then the universal but slightly different moves like sidekick!

you can also learn things like -5 and Fuzzy Guard. Then you slowly learn the situations when you are at -5 after a move of yours (like elbow) is blocked. When you get really strong you can learn when the opponent puts you in -5.

you don’t need to know everything at once, but everything will come with time and serious effort and results will occassionally bear strong fruit as you improve over time.

this game is actually simple enough that you can get strong playing simply for a long time. And you can add complexity after lots of experience

 

Really agree with the approach. Thnk most importantly, try to have fun whle also learning little by little without getting overwhelemd. Thanks again for the advice and encouragement.