Frames make my head hurt

Hey,
I'm new to VF completely, I've played a few fighter games before like mortal kombat, ergheiz, smash brothers, etc. I never really tried to get good at them. I just played them for fun. I can see now that VF has waayyy.. more depth than those games and it would be cool to get good at.

I picked up VF 5 for the ps3 just the other day and I like it so far but I've definitely run into a wall playing against the quest mode 2nd and 3rd Dans (some chars I can beat easier than others).

I found this site and the super detailed wiki but its so overwhelming. How in the world do you people count frames? It looks like so much strategy is based on knowing tons of frame data. Do I really have to memorize all of that to beat the single player? When I say that I mean fight 10th dan and win a reasonable percentage of the time (is this a realistic expectation? How hard is 10th dan?)

I pretty much started playing with Jacky since he uses a style I've studied irl so his moves are amusingly familiar. I can pull off most of his moves, some of the more complicated ones I can't (Edit: lol I meant in game).

I can see clearly that right now I really lack in blocking. Recently, when fighting Lei-fei and Vanessa they block everything, I block nothing and they do WTF throws and combos that destroy my health bar. What can I do here?

 

How much fighting game experience do you have in general? If you have never come across the concept of frames before, it might be something that you shouldn't worry about just yet.

Once you have a more clear idea about why you are losing, or once you have become familiar with the materials on this site, then it's probably a good idea to check out myke's guide to frames.

 

Take it step by step, if you've never played a fighting game seriously before it's kinda overwhelming yea. But the concept of advantage and disadvantage is kind of central to the game.

You'd do good by just starting to memorize the frame data for a few moves. Like for a jab, low punch, elbow, basicly your fast pokes. In the top right corner of the command list page there is a guide that helps you understand the concept.

The gist of it though is that when your attack connected you have advantage and should continue attacking or go for a throw. If you have your attack blocked then you are disadvantage and should take some defensive actions. same goes for your opp, if he hits you tehn you have disadvantage and when you block his attack then you have advantage. Some moves break this rule but it's something to keep in mind.

 

Thanks for the responses,
Yeah, I've only had casual experience with fighting games. Though usually I was at least able to beat the single player on the hard difficulties but not with this game.

While I've never encountered the concept of frames before I do think I get the gist of it. In the past after playing the games enough I just got a sense of how fast moves were and when I could safely attack. From what I've read and what you say frames are the same idea but in a far more concrete sense than I've ever dealt with.

 

Yeah, frame data is really just precisely expressing how much faster/slower a move is.

For example, if your low punch hits your opponent, your opponent is then at -4 frames of disadvantage. An elbow takes 14 frames to execute, and in general the fastest attacks in the game are 10-frame punches. So you have 14-4 frames = 10. And they also have 10 frames for their punch... but elbows do more damage, so in this case, the elbow will counter hit the punch.

Now, if you ignore all that math, I could have just said "If your low punch strikes your opponent, and you immediately perform an elbow, then your opponent will always get hit unless they block/evade, or use a sabaki/reversal. There is no normal attack that they can use that will beat your elbow in that situation."

Frames are just an easy way of looking up that data very precisely, without having to actively test it in game, however it's the exact same information. You don't ever need to memorize the frame numbers to learn how to play.

 

imo the most important part is knowing which moves are safe on block and which can be punished easily. you don't need to remember the frames of every single move during a match.

 

(lying to every1 in the room) I made a 62 frame attack look like a 5 frame jab

 

I think you should bust out a calculator and start solving the equations. If you're going to be hardcore go ALL the way seriously.

Check it, 2P(NH)=+4F:6P > Opponent Attack </= Reversal/Sabaki/Inashi/Block/Fried Bologna

See its the easiest way to learn!
You even get to learn Japanese!

 

Just know when you're at a small, medium, or large advantage/disadvantage. Learn what to do offensively on advantage, and defensively on disadvantage(sometimes that can switch on you. like reversals and sabaki's). And know what moves you and your opponent can punish for free, or make them deal with, when you act right away. After that the game does a good job of being somewhat intuitive, and when you see things similar you can usually make a pretty good guess as to the choices you can make, just based on how a move and a situation works.

And advantage you want to be on the offensive to make use of your advantage. And on disadvantage, acting defensively is a good choice because you could make the situation worsen otherwise.

 

i try not to think too much but go by feel and try to react correctly by reading the situation.thats how i play vf

 

Frames is a masurement of time like seconds. In VF5 there are 60 frames per second. With throws, they are /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif type inputs (/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif pressed at the same time), and some combos are done with moves called "floater moves", then something else. There are throw combo moves too, like Kage's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif. I must be getting too far ahead. Spend some time in the Dojo to find these combo starter moves, and keep doing practice. I hope this helps.