Fuzzy OS attack commands

So I'm writing this down for two reasons 1) I want to be able to remember this technology in the future if I stop playing and forget everything like I did recently; 2) Level up your game yo; 3) Others might take this beyond my imagination and we all level up!

Based on nekko dojo's newest preview video showing akira/lau doing Fuzzy -> 46P -> 6P+K+G (Guard-break) where the opponent is either trying to throw you (hence the 46P palm into combo after you've fuzzy guarded) or they try to hit you with a relatively fast mid attack (you and land your GB move due to the way input buffer works). For the mid attack the speed is important here i.e. 19 frames is magic number from my testing so far. There are ways to deal with that but that's beyond the scope of this post.

See http://virtuafighter.techblog.jp/vf5fs/3afc.html for more about your options for dealing damage to someone who can fuzzy guard.

Eileen doesn't have a GB that's worth using in this situation but she has a great set of options from her zenk. So for Eileen here's her version of this:

Fuzzy -> 6P+K -> 236P+K

Here's what will happen in the two situations.

They throw: you'll fuzzy the throw attempt and your 6P+K will hit as a minor counter hit which means the second mid punch is guaranteed so it will come out when you input 236P+K because you can't cancel the first mid punch & now you can mixup your opponent for free with your cancels.

They Attack: You'll fuzzy guard, block the attack and since your 6P+K command input overlaps with the buffer window of your block, that move doesn't come out and instead you'll get the zenk move to come out instead. I'd choose the catch throw option here, but you could use the plus on block Kick if you feel so inclined. The point is you're entering the right choice based on the situations.

I thought Sega taking away eileen's 6P+K cancelability was a nerf, but now that I understand the buffer system better and how it interacts with fuzzy guard, the change was actually a buff.

 

Just a quick note: the core (and I must admit, simplified) version of this technology is known for some time (was promoted by @Chibiaya shortly after FS release) and he also noted what the main drawback of this tech is:
While this optionselect works perfectly as long as your opponent mix up between elbow and throw properly, it lose in every situation where he uses anything slower.
As an example - if you will be -4 vs Jacky, this will work if he will mix up throw and elbow (6P) but will get rekt if he will throw out for example P+KP or in this case even 4P+K or 6K+G or whatever.

 

You're right in both cases! The key to this is you have to know what speed your opponent is playing at and hold your G accordingly, or just attack without fuzzy guarding, or fuzzy into evade, attack OS.

This builds on top of Chibiaya's post by adding in two options instead of just one. Knowing your timing is still key to using this right so you can't just use this blindly, it's just one part of a set of tools. But, this overall concept can be and I'm starting to think should be applied to all your options in FS.

P.S. it beats things up to 19exe without altering your timing from the basic fastest mid attack option, so it wins (read: you block then zenk throw or just use 6P+K+G to monkey walk to duck all his high followups if jacky's mashing) against beat knuckle

 

So basically you are turning out safe defensive technique (fuzzy) into straightforward hard guess? And calling it new high level technique?

 

Glad to see people are still arguing about fuzzy ~ attack, 8 years later.

Never change, vfdc, never change.

 

To answer the first question Yes up to -5 which is max anyway. It still will require practice. Don't expect it to just come out easily, but once you get it down it's easy.

what are you using to OS with your 4PPK?

I'm not sure if people watched the video I linked. . . This isn't just the simple fuzzy into attack. This is about controlling the input buffer window to do things that you couldn't otherwise.

*note: this why cats don't be sharing tech on the forum. everyone wanna say why it don't work before actually understanding what it is doing**

 

Yes, exactly. This is why techs are not shared. Because asking anything = insult by default. Same goes for not understanding instantly to whatever is written, no matter how good or bad it is content-wise or logic-wise.
Yes, I agree. I saw this already.

 

Sorry, Unicorn, I call BS. That wasn't just you innocently "asking anything". You were making fun of tricky's "high level technique" (when he never claimed any such thing) and posting googly eyes icons.

As far as the tech itself, rather than think of it as a way to make fuzzy guard less safe, think of it as a way to make abare more safe. If you're predicting a throw and want to abare with something more damaging than a jab, why not fuzzy first? If you're already doing that, why not follow up with something useful that will come out automatically if you do end up fuzzy guarding?

 

Sorry to disapoint you, but I was not.
But people acting exactly like this and jumping on the "oh my why everyone hates for posting new shit" wagon just becasue it is so cool to do so are straightforward awesome.

 

I mean that's why Akira is top tier so I don't expect Eileen to have something like that. Like you could do 4P~6P+K+G, K and get that 4PPK string or monkey walk into kicks. I wonder if you could even replace 4P~6P+K+G, K+G or P+K to bring in that real mixup. I'm not actually sure if the system will read those inputs properly or not.

Try to imagine, what would you want to use after blocking their mid if they did not throw you? Then try to replace my zenk with that. share what you find!

 

I am starting to see potential usefulness of this tech. I still disagree with it being used constantly or even a lot, but there definitelly seems to be pitential in this if you mix it up in your defence as other option besides standar fuzzy/evade/abare options.

It also seems to beat OEC if someone use it, what is worth to mention.

 

right this is how I am seeing its utility.

 

@MarlyJay Soooo I found that you can get 4PPK to come out on throw whiff (aka opponent doesn't do anything) or any P+K attack that wouldn't conflict with or actually includes a 4 command in it. Sorry for the terrible sentence.... Let me just show the commands.

4P, (quickly) P~P+K and you'll get the full 4PPK string to come out if opponent does nothing or you get the P+K to come out if they made you block. If you want to get more fancy with you choices you could even do 4P, P~3P+K and you'll get your 43P+K to come out instead.

I've also had pretty good experience using 4P~3P+K (all quickly input) to get either the 4PPK string to come out at once or the 3P mid punch. TO hitcheck for CH3P into 236KKK I remembered the trick is not to react to the flash cuz there isn't enough time, but to notice your opponent has done a move and just react to that instead. You end up with way more time to confirm your 236KKK.

The next thing I want to look into are how to use Eileen's 2/8/6 P+K+G stances as the first input and then putting a attack as the second input. Basically to deal with folks who just wait out their advantage and stand there *cough* @cruzlink2 *cough* (yes i'm making tech for your ass) . The reason I want to look into mastering the input buffer windows is because I want to avoid using G cancels since that kills Eileen's cancellable and interrupt frames on moves. Right now it's the only way I have to make a choice safer, but I know there is a better way to use eileen's cancels and interrupts, but you HAVE to abuse the way VF's input system prioritizes your inputs within the context of strings.

 

Pardon me, this may sound like a silly question, but why wouldn't you just throw? He's just standing there at + frames, right? Throw his ass, you don't need to OS everything, you know.

 

yup yup! Though I am also adding in responses (beyond throw) that take advantage of opponents who choose to just wait out the whole fuzzy guard and just wait. @og23 You're right that throwing is always an option and this exploration is not to replace the throwing choice. I'm more looking into additional ways to take advantage of reads on my opponent in safer ways. For example, if I know my opponent is mixing up their responses between immediate attacks like SDE (credible threat), stand and wait while holding G and reacting to duck throws or highs, standing and waiting with the occasional backdash from the right ranges, and also mixing that up with good wait -> attack then I do not want to only have THROW as my response to them waiting when it's one of our turns. I want to a) take the extra time and punish them with moves that I wouldn't otherwise get to use while b) minimizing my openness to their slowed pace alterations.

Basically, if I know you're going to wait, you're out of range for me to get a throw safely off, then I want to use a different tool to pressure with. My philosophical approach is also my style though, and not everyone approaches the game in this way and they also get good results too. For how my brain/style works, this is how I need to think of the game and approach the different levels of yomi to get the most consistent results. I don't want you worried about throw, I was you worried about throw and 6 other equally scary things that I could do in the same situation that also covers other options you could be using. That you will not know what read I am making about your options, hence better hide how I'm reading you which also makes me harder to adapt to.

If I'm throwing you it's because I have no better options available based on what I'm thinkin you're likely to do and never because it's the only option.