G UP OR DOWN moves

I dunt really know how to apply this into my game yet. Wondering if u guys have any certain setups for moves like..

G UP OR DOWN P or K, G DF, UF P.
I understand it evades linear attacks.. is it stance specific? do u have to be at a certain disadv for it to work( what disadv can i do this these moves till)?
neways, just wanted to get a discussion going on these move sets in DEF STANCE.

 

The stomach crumple punches are half circular and work nice vs elbow/throw mixup after light (elbow) stagger or small disadvantage. The head crumple punches are more whiff punishers. The kicks are less useful. 99% of my vs Vane experience is in vf4evo. Certainly Chefboy (since he plays vf5 Vanessa) or Rodney (since an old playing partner of his was an excellent Vanessa player) can help more.

 

I think those moves were nerfed or in general lost usefulness from Evo.

 

The head crumple and the stomach crumple is an extremely effective move against overaggressive people that attack from disadvantages mainly. The kick from this position however is something that isn't really useful much except for a random mix up I don't many uses for it at all.

 

WTF! Do you guys pay attention when you fight my Vanessa, or True's! Come on!!!

 

I just see random strings coming at me and i'm like WTF is this?! I got to learn Vanessa one day

 

You were use the kick version the last time I saw your vanessa alot as a mixup from that position. I paid attention to it. I would basically use it the same way you did on me when the opponent expects the stomach crumple or head collapse.

 

_ (to stomach is more evasive, to back is slightly safer) and _ (to stomach is more evasive and faster, to back should never be used) are to be used in a situation where you're in disadvantage and you know for sure the opponent will attack with a linear/half-circular attack. If they don't attack, you can be in the case of _, you can be punished on block and with _ be ducked and then punished. However, _ should be used sparsely, because there are instances where even if you evade an attack, sometimes the enemy will still be able to block the attack if the attack that was evaded had little recovery frames (like a standard ). There are far too many factors to list in regards to how these attacks work in terms of stance dependency, and at what exact frame to use it (but that can apply to any move really). Just have to use yomizzz and cross your fingers, much like with Aoi's +.

_... unless you want to be creative at the expense of doing damage, avoid this attack at all costs. However because it is so rarely used, it can really mind fuck the opponent, especially an abare/DM+ opponent as it will avoid almost any attack with short range and hits as a full circ. Of course if your opponent is playing like that, and since you're already in DS, just use a sabaki instead.

 

To answer the original poster, no, there is no particular way to setup these moves, you have to guess based on your apprehension of the opponent's playstyle.

Just remember: in VF5, if vane gets CH while performing these moves in can count as a sidehit

 

Im confused by this too although I didnt see the shoutbox discussion. If I had I would have asked.. You mean fuzzyguardable disadvantage or more for 'true' nitaku? Vane certainly has both in DS.. Just low punch blocked is -5..

 

There was no shoutbox discussion manji ; while i indeed typed the above mentioned statement, it was followed by a couple of other lines, one of which included "in my humble opinion" (not imho, i actually took the time to spell it, in order to state that, yes, this is merely my opinion) which marly somehow forgot to quote, then i had to cede the laptop back to my GF to finish her powerpoint presentation. I tried sneaking a quick log in afterwards but she wouldn't have it and once she was out of the shower she started mashing the keyboard while i was trying to type

Anyway, my own personal interpretation of vane's Hold moves be damned, the fact remains that up until now nobody in this thread has bothered explaining a way to setup them to mackfactor. So for the time being i think my statement of "there is no particular way to setup these moves" is still valid.

I can only hope somebody will prove me wrong and actually contribute a setup

 

I was more interested about the sentence that Vane doesnt have moves in DS that leave her at nitaku disadvantage on block.. Which was more than weird in my opinion.

 

Manji, dunno, isn't nitaku supposed to mean "2 choice"? Don't DS sabaki give vanessa a consistent 3rd option? I know some Vanessa players who frequent VFDC spam the hell out of them refusing to guard. I could try and argue that, even taken out of context, the sentence wasn't all that wrong.

However the sentence is taken out of context. While on the shoutbox, i was trying to make a point. In my humble opinion hold moves are redundant due to her DS sabakis. My guess is that's the reason they are slowly fading away : VF5 took away the hand hold after or ; VF5R took away or entirely, along with or. Remains to be seen if or will survive VF5FS.

I already predicted this conversation was bound to occur almost a year ago. However, given that it wasn't directly related to mackfactor's opening post question about setups i tried having it on the shoutbox for those that might be interested. But i guess we'll be having it here afterall.

Marly, good luck with the testing, let us know if you find anything interesting.

 

The two choices are what you are expected to defend - a mid or a throw.

 

I would say Minor advantage. I use the kick too, but only when opponent is attacking from a distance.

 

Yup, still there in VF5FS. Appears to be elbow punishable on block. Floats yield 60-70 damage.