Warning: theory fighter ahead, don't bother reading or replying if you're just gonna say 'dude, that doesnt matter to the real game.' So I read 'The Compleat Strategyst' the other day, and had been thinking about how game theory applies to VF, which brought up a question: How much do you value frame advantage or disadvantage? At a simple level, the value of a successful attack or throw is obvious - it's the amount of damage done. e.g. a basic model of a nitaku / 2-choice situation where you choose between Throw (say, 40 pts) and a mid Attack combo (say, 60 pts); while your opponent chooses between Guard or a reverse nitaku Attack would look something like this: _| A G A 60 0 T -60 40 Meaning if you choose Attack while they choose Attack, you get 60 pts of damage, Throw vs Attack you lose 60 pts, and so on. So you should choose A about | -60 - 40 | = 100 times for every | 60 - 0 | = 60 times that you choose T, or a 5:3 ratio between attack and throw. On average this nitaku will net you about (5 * 60 + 3 * -60) / 8 = 15 points of damage; so being on the advantage end of this nitaku is 'worth' 15 points to you. Of course, this model isnt realistic - for instance, when you choose A and the opponent chooses G, the situation isn't really 0 pts of damage; you're at a disadvantage even if no damage is guaranteed. How much is that disadvantage worth? This is easy to figure if the frame advantage you have going into the nitaku is identical to the frame advantage the opponent has if she blocks. E.G. jacky vs. jacky, you block /versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif and respond with either throw or /versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif; you're at +7fr going in and -7fr if you choose A vs G. So what's the Value of 7 frames? _| A G A 60 ? T -60 40 With the same characters, being at -7fr is worth the same as being at +7fr, just with an opposite sign. But +7fr is the exact situation we're considering. So the value of the space marked ? (call it -V) is the same as the overall value of the nitaku itself, and you have _| A G A 60 -V T -60 40 V = ( 100 * 60 + (60 - -V) * -60 ) / ( 160 + V ) which works out to about 10.5. Thus, once you consider frame disadvantage, this nitaku is only worth about 10-11 points instead of 15; you should throw more often than previously calculated, about a 10:7 ratio between attack and throw. The worth of 7 frames was easy to calculate because of the identical choice of character and attack. It should be similarly easy to calculate the value of some guaranteed situations, e.g. if you're evo jacky and at +13 frames, i'd be willing to bet /versus/images/commands/df.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif,/versus/images/commands/u.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif dominates all other options, there's not much value in throwing or risky attacks. My question is, for other non-trivial frame disadvantage / advantage situations, what rule of thumb would you use to decide how much those frames are worth?