Goh okizeme and groundwork

what moves do you use for okizeme with goh ?
I play this character since a few times and I want to know. Do you often use groundthrow and stomps ?

I really often use groundthrow but it become sometime a weakness and for okizeme I just walk back because it's frustrating to lose a match with a rising kick.

 

One of the main things to understand is how bad rising kicks actually are. Unless you will be finished off by one, you should usually keep the pressure on your opponent when you knock them down because, generally, the rewards greatly outweigh the danger of being hit by one.

Going for a ground throw has it's place (if your opponent is bad at tech-rolling, after spinning knockdowns, certain wall combos etc) but usually it's better to do other things. If you're determined to use ground throws more, you can try things like using 6P+K as a surprise during a combo and then ground throwing them when they don't tech-roll.

Practice backdashing at the last minute to bait and avoid a rising kick and then punishing them as it whiffs. This is basic but still very effective and Goh's kicks are great from this kind of range. Or for a mid-level rising kick you can hit them with something like 46P and for a low-level one you can dash in and use a low throw or just hit them with something like K for the stagger or 3K for another knockdown if you don't think you have time to dash in.

You can also use 6K to crush rising kicks, it's quite easy to time once you get the hang of it and gives huge damage. This is one of my favourite things to do (and one of the reasons I like Goh so much) since if they get up and guard you're not counterable (only -9, and sometimes even better than that if the knee is guarded towards the end of it's hit window) whereas most characters have to take a bigger risk when using a move with a lot of hit frames (more hit frames = better chance of crushing their rising attack). I find it a little easier from situations where they can only do the linear mid-level rising kick (it's character-specific but usually face-down situations I think). Quite a few of Goh's throws leave them in different positions on the ground so you might be able to take advantage of that among other things. Obviously don't overuse this because when you do get MCed by a rising kick or have your 6K guarded, you're giving them the advantage back even if nothing is guaranteed against you.

Once you can do stuff like this your opponent will know to reduce the number of rising kicks they use and will get up and try to defend more. Goh is pretty good at handling this since he has a ton of throw directions, low throws, a catch throw, a great crouch killing move (Basara), a half-circular hit throw that works on guard and all kinds of random junk that will make it difficult for them to get up safely.

Speaking of the 66K+G hit-throw, this is very useful if your opponent likes to ETE after a tech roll since it's half circular, works even if they guard it, and will beat an attack too. That covers 3 options at once so try and work it in too.

Another trick he has is using an offensive evade while they're down and following it with his forward roll (6P+K+G) if you suspect they'll do a rising kick. If you time it right they will get up and kick the wrong way and you'll be in backturned stance where you can turn around and throw or use P+K(backturned) to mess with them.

Think of a knockdown as a +600 frame advantage to you. Your opponent is locked into a choice of only 2 pretty terrible moves until they rise and you can start your attacks at any point so you can always beat them to the punch.

Your opponent is the one on the ground, make them fear you and not the other way around!

 

so against rising kick /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif will crush them.

I heard that /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif was nice against tech roll.

I remember a thing too, when I was playing with Akira against Goh, my rising low kicks was always countered by a simple /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif , is it specific to Akira (due to his slide move) or does it work against everyone?

 

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif will crush a rising kick yes. You have to time it so your knee is in its hit frames at the same time as your opponent's rising kick is.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif //forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif beats a tech roll yes, but I find them to be not really worth it most of the time. That said, if you can get it to work then go for it.

I'm not sure what you meant in your Akira example, can you clarify it?

 

when Akira is performing his rising low kick you guard, and then punish with a low throw.

 

It's character and position specific. Check out the command lists for more info on that. Generally a delayed rising kick is more punishable than a fastest timing one.

 

Practically you can do Okizeme with every move that comes with a decent range. Goh has got more Okizeme options that one might think at first.

One year ago I wrote a Goh Okizeme article which can be accessed here. It only covers the most basic aspects and Okizeme moves, though. There are plenty of additional options that are left unexplained in the guide. However, it's a good starting point. Along with the guide comes a video showing the most basic Okizeme moves in action.

 

Thanks for your answers peoples but I have another question.
After wich throw is the ground throw safe?
I know that after /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, tsukami /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif and tsukami /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif your opponent isn't able to rise up directly and you have enought time to try a ground throw, but is there any other moves ?

 

A weak down attack is guaranteed to connect. With /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif you can throw your opponent into a wall (along with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif) and follow-up with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif for 60 dmg

 

You can go for ground throw after
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif wall hit (can also take guaranteed shoulder)
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif wall hit (can also take guaranteed shoulder)
Any wall combo the opponent can't tech out of
Or Tsukami /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif/ /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif/ /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif/ /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif
EDIT: Forgot /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif on open ground does not guarantee a ground throw attempt. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif down attack is guaranteed.
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif/ /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif also does not guarantee a ground throw but the opponent has to struggle well to recover in time. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif down attack is guaranteed but you have to hit /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif or do a small dash to realign or Goh will miss the punch.

Aside from Tsukami throws and opponent failing to recover something I suggest taking the guaranteed damage instead. Actually, better take the guaranteed damage there too unless you want to be flashy.

 

If the opponent recovers fast enough a ground throw attempt isn't guaranteed after /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif. If, however, you throw the opponent against the wall with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, a ground throw attempt is guaranteed.

You are right that after most solo throws of the tsukami grab a ground throw attempt is possible as well.

After certain crumples ground throws are possible too (but combos are so much more recommended). /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif (on sabaki) comes instantly to my mind here.