Goh Sabaki questions...

In the Evolution movelist for Goh it lists these Sabaki moves, but seems a bit incomplete.

+ = VS High Kick and Mid Kick
+ = VS ???
+ = VS Knee
+ = VS ???
+ = VS Mid Punch

My questions:
1. What exactly do the + and + sabaki against?
2. Do any of these moves have guaranteed follow-ups?
3. What kind active frame windows do they have? I have tried + against LK and LP (Guessing it works versus Low), but have never gotten it to work.
4. What is the + (?) move that seems to work like Pai's Trip move? I have only done it once or twice accidentally.

 

P+K = vs high punches (and high elbows?)
b,df+P+K vs low punch I think. For some reason I'd though b,df+P was the low punch sabaki.

Guaranteed followups -
The b,f+K crumples if it sabakis a kick. b,f+P+K crumples if it sabakis a knee (didn't know about that one, thanks). Standard crumple combos include well timed low punch into standing kick (low punch hits with on-the-bounce-timing).... or just do something simple like a knee or modified shoulder ram, then pursue the standard crumple flowchart - dash and do a standing kick to backstagger if they tech roll... do a knee and/or ground throw to punish them for staying down... and throw-or-b,f+P+K if they QR.

P+K and df+P+K bat the punches aside for no damage and go into the canned tsukame throw followup (tap P+K, P+G or df+P+K, P+G to go immediately into the catch... it works even if the swipe misses)
I've heard (but haven't confirmed) that a regular throw is also guaranteed if you inashi a high or mid punch with these moves.

b,df+P+K I haven't played with yet, so no idea.

3. I don't know. My experience is that a sabaki only sabakis if the command for it is completed any time after the opponent's attack starts to execute. If you do b,f+K and the opponent kicks one frame later, your b,f+K will win or lose based on its priority as a normal attack (it will probably lose to their kick as b,f+K is slow). If the b,f+K is done one frame after their kick, it will always win and make the sabaki noise.
I try to use P+K and df+P+K with reversal-like timing to be safe.

4. the move you're thinking of is u+K+G or d+K+G, it works if it hits but it usually won't hit unless the opponent dodges. I nailed akira during a dashing elbow with it once, even though that's the ultimate linear attack. So I don't know what the conditions are for making it work, stick with it after tech rolls or other situations where people end up moving to your side.

 

While we're on the subject of Goh...there are two different low kicks where if they connect for a counter, you can perform a hit-throw. One, I see Goh players use often when the other person is techrolling. The other is a "sacrifice" throw where Goh gets on the ground, trips them up, grabs their arm, and punches them. What are the commands for these (sorry, I don't have evo, but I just want to know).

 

The first one is the d+K+G and u+K+G I mentioned in my reply to rep.

The second is df+K+G --> f+P+G (you can only go into the throw if the df+K+G interrupts the opponent's attack).

 

Myke, Goh's + and + needs to be updated on the movelists to show what they sabaki against.

CreeD said that the + Sabaki's VS HP and maybe E/HE. The + Sabaki's versus LP.

 

[ QUOTE ]
Myke said:


You don't need to have evo to look at Goh's Command List on this site:



[/ QUOTE ]

I've already looked. I knew somebody was going to say something like that, that's why I apologized. I know what the commands are, I just wanted to know which one is which animation-wise , seeing as how Evo is so far from me and I can't practice and determine for myself which one is which.

I should've explained that from the beginning.

 

P+K is much better than that...It also sabaki's elbows and mid punches /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif. Furthermore, I was under the impression that it's an inashi, as it does no damage by itself and Goh can be thrown during it's execution.

 

I swore it inashi'd all that stuff, then I thought "nah I imagined it, because what's df+P+K for if P+K handles high and mids?" Anyway, thanks for the update. So what's df+P+K do?

Also, yes, it's an inashi reversal in my book

 

[ QUOTE ]
I swore it inashi'd all that stuff, then I thought "nah I imagined it, because what's df+P+K for if P+K handles high and mids?

[/ QUOTE ]

I asked myself the same thing. I fooled around with the df+P+K, but so far I've only managed to sabaki mid punches with it. It would suck if it only sabaki'd mid punch though. I still can't figure out exactly what's guaranteed after it (maybe b,f+P ?). Throws usually work, but I've noticed that a forward dash is required.

 

d/f+P+K also sabaki's elbows. I guess it's time for people to go to free training and just test some of this stuff out. I'll try to get on it later tonight.

 

mid punch = elbow, and yes, it only sabaki's elbow class attacks, ie mid punches.

/versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

Cool. I just got my copy of Evo yesterday and I haven't had a chance to test everything out in free training mode yet. Basically, I've just been going through Goh's command training and tutorial. I can't wait 'till we get a translation of the "Guide" section. /versus/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

hmm...I don't see how you can classify mid punchs and elbows together. For example, Kage can reverse mid punches but not elbows. They're not the same in my opinion. That's why Jacky's f+P isn't as good as it was in ver C.

 

hmm.. my bad, I made a mistake. You are right, mid punches are in the punch class attacks, which is a separate class from elbows. Goh's ++ only sabakis mid punches and elbows.

/versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

Very confused now as to what is actually Sabaki'ed(?) by what. /versus/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

Here's the rundown -

b,f+P+K sabakis knees. Knees need no explanation I guess, it's any knee strike basically. They don't have to be giant leaping knees like jeffry's. Knee is a separate attack class from other kicks.

b,f+K sabakis kicks. Pretty much any common leg strike that isn't a knee will be sabaki'd by b,f+K. That includes sidekicks, which the game considers a special class all its own from other mid kicks. It also sabakis certain half circular midkicks, such as a rising kick from the facedown, head towards position. It will not work against some spinning kicks like heelkicks (which is roughly the class that most high rising attacks fall in) and crescent kicks (stuff like goh's K+G and also his f,f+K+G, tho f,f+K+G is only half circular and crescent usually implies fully circular).

I was confused earlier about P+K ... there is only one P+K. It can alternately be done with a db+P+K command but they are the exact same thing. P+K bats aside basically any kind of punch except double fisted strikes and low punches. That means it handles jabs, body blows, hooks, uppercuts, etc... and also it handles elbows, which is a separate attack class from mid punches (jacky's autoinashi will handle mid punches but loses to any common boring elbow).
After any P+K attempt, press P+G immediately after to go into tsukame. If the P+K fails you will still try to grab them. If it succeeds the catch followup is assured.

b,df+P+K - is specifically a low punch reversal, and goes into tsukame only if successful. If it fails, pressing P+G will result in a regular throw attempt.

df+P+K - this is the most interesting one. It's a small uppercut with minimal reward, but it sabakis both mid punches and elbows. If it successfully sabakis a mid punch, a throw is guaranteed but only in closed stance. In open stance a throw attempt misses. Do they really expect you to keep track in the heat of the moment? Not exactly... the game helps you out by having goh say two different things depending on whether he sabakis in open stance or closed stance. If he sabakis in open stance he says "Ra-ta" which basically is bad (no throw for you).
If he says "ah HOY!", that's good (immediately input a throw and they cannot mash out of it, they can only escape it using usual throw escapes).

Contrary to what I'd heard before, using P+K to bat aside a punch and then trying for an immediate throw is NOT guaranteed. The opponent can attack you out of that throw. It's not a bad gamble though. Another interesting sidenote: P+K when it sabakis a punch leaves goh +14, meaning a jab or a df+P are guaranteed to hit. You can get at least a tiny chunk of guaranteed damage from this sabaki basically. Too bad goh isn't akira and doesn't get f,f,f+P -> AS3 for free

 

Makes sense now. Thanks CreeD.

 

hi all,
i am a newb in the virtua world so pls dont blame me if i post like a newb.

Im a tekken expert and veteran but dont like tekken 4 any more. I just changed the game .....

So i practise with go and have some questions:

f K (MC) : how many frames of advantage do i have??
or better where can i find a frame faq of goh??

sabaki: is it the word for something like auto parry??

and is something guaranteed after his d+ sabaki?

thats all for now and dont blame for this post