Goh Strategy (Flow, Setups, Combos etc)

Well so far all I've seen on Goh is move analysis (esp regarding his Inashi and Sabaki abilities), but nothing really dealing with hardcore fighting strats. I'll post a little of what I've discovered in my short n00b experience with him.

LP flow charts... my stuff is pretty basic, but I usually lean towards the shoulder ram (esp on MC LP), the LP inashi (works well against people who answer LP with LP), and (excellent against stopping stagger seekers). Also, comes out fairly quick to chase backdash.

When to use + Inashi... while blocking a high punch string (Pai, Lau, Vanessa), this comes out quickly and interrupts well. Not much else to be said though, since this has been analyzed to death already /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

The + "mist trap" as tekken players would call it... comes in handy after a stagger (esp wall stagger), and against ppl who TR and turtle briefly. However, he has a better option against TRs...

or + + as you know is designed to snag TRs and evades (in his same direction). I think this works the same way as Pai's TR trap (albeit harder). Something else I've noticed: normally in an open area, the move always whiffs unless they evade or TR into it... however, when Goh's side is pressed against a wall(not his back), he has nowhere to sidestep to. Since the wall stops his SS animation, the trip hits his standing opponent anyways. Of course they can evade away from the wall... like any other attack, but they won't be expecting this to hit them here.

Forced crouch moves:

(2nd hit)
(MC)
(MC)
+
+
Ok my question here is which one of these presents a guaranteed low throw attempt? He also has 2 stun attacks that present low throw attempts, +, and +. In the case where opponents try to stop the low throw attempt with a LP, the LP Inashi is the perfect answer... so I mix up between low throw and the LP inashi.

(MC), +... I've watched the greenbook DVD tournament and saw this used after staggers... when else do you use this? Btw, the timing on the throw is pretty lenient, compared to the + version.

Juggles: Obviously Goh isn't a big juggle character, so the stuff I've come up with is very basic (nothing more than 3 hits). I usually just cut my juggle short and dash in to see if they TR, then use the TR trap kick.

That's all I have now... hopefully we'll get better strats in here for Goh so we can see him in high level play.

 

will [ QUOTE ]
Forced crouch moves:

(2nd hit)
(MC)
(MC)
++
+
Ok my question here is which one of these presents a guaranteed low throw attempt? He also has 2 stun attacks that present low throw attempts, +, and +. In the case where opponents try to stop the low throw attempt with a LP, the LP Inashi is the perfect answer... so I mix up between low throw and the LP inashi.


[/ QUOTE ]

<ul type="square">
[*] and (MC) setup you up for a low throw.
[*] (MC) is impossible to low throw, you must combo it. (with + or |+)
[*] if (2nd hit) MCs it gives you enough of an advantage that will MC any attack from your opponent , provided it's not a knee reversal/sakabki/dodges back etc. Most importantly the will MC any followup from your opponent.
[*] + would cause a crumple on MC in EVO verA -- but it doesn't seem to do that anymore in verB /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif
[*] (MC) is another low throw/combo opportunity because is causes a crumple.
[/list]


cheers,
kbcat

 

[ QUOTE ]
kbcat said:
(MC) is impossible to low throw, you must combo it. (with + or |+)


[/ QUOTE ]

Umm, no offence, but actually you have a guaranteed low trow after on counter.

 

Here's a few combos:

(MC) -> + -> -> +
or
(MC) -> + -> -> (in closed stance against the girls). After the last hit slams the opponent (it can be techrolled but it's hard), you can go for a ground throw or .

After (MC) you can follow with ->

-> + . With this combo you can choose to stop at +(which slams the opponent) and gamble with a ground throw attempt if they don't TR.

Most of the time you should use: -> -> +

 

Just wanted to verify that I tested this and it's true.
A kind of hilarious situation if your opponent lacks the skill to deal with it:
f+K [MC] --> d+P+K+G --> b,b,P+G is 100 pts.
More hilarious:
f+K [MC] --> b,f+P+K --> d+P+K+G --> b,b,P+G is 123 pts.

Fortunately, double low throw escape is really easy, and attempting to escape it doesn't leave you open to a MC (from my testing anyway).

 

A minor quibble, you mention b,f+P into f+P+K, P ... which doesn't work... before going on to mention the f+P+K slam --> ground throw, which does.

The only time f+P+K,P combos is after a f+K MC.

 

[ QUOTE ]
Umm, no offence, but actually you have a guaranteed low trow after on counter.

[/ QUOTE ]

and here I've always thought it was like Wolf's knee on MC, no low throw. cool... now my Goh gets a leg up -- although I guess - + - low throw is the big damage combo.


cheers,
kbcat

 

Yeah the leg goes up, but on counter, the oppoent is kinda lifted up, lets out a grunt and falls back into a coruch position. (counter) is 80 points.

 

[ QUOTE ]
Cosmic_Forge said:
or + + as you know is designed to snag TRs and evades (in his same direction). I think this works the same way as Pai's TR trap (albeit harder). Something else I've noticed: normally in an open area, the move always whiffs unless they evade or TR into it... however, when Goh's side is pressed against a wall(not his back), he has nowhere to sidestep to. Since the wall stops his SS animation, the trip hits his standing opponent anyways. Of course they can evade away from the wall... like any other attack, but they won't be expecting this to hit them here.


[/ QUOTE ]

I just fiddled around with this in free training. I found this frightingly effecient in snuffing techrolls. If you are in range, you have ample time to wait for you opponent to TR in either direction and trip them with /+. You even have a guaranteed groundthrow after it (tested in free training with the dummy set on getting up quickly). Of course, this can be broken at 50%, but if your opponent TRed towards your back (Goh says "amai", Japanese for "sweet adj" btw) you also have a guaranteed ground punch. Didn't get around to thoroughly test it after TR towards your front (Goh says "ratatuuya" or something like that), but the ground punch seemed to miss.

 

In case anyone missed it, my goh guide just went up here.

Enjoy /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

Excellent breakdown of Goh, Creed. I'd like to add a few things from my perspective though.

+ is actually decent after you stagger an opponent, especially a wall stagger. Throws can be escaped, but not the mist trap here. I don't recommend it all the time, but it has worked well for me in vs and cpu comp.

Other moves with poor recovery (but not necessarily LP counterable) are great setups for the LP inashi. I actually use and + to bait out LPs for this reason.

Also, has anyone noticed that the timing for the first drag in Tsukame is more precise after the low grab/LP inashi compared to the high inashi version? With the high, I can input the drags immediately, but with the low version, there is a delay first. Anyone else noticed this?

 

[ QUOTE ]
Also, has anyone noticed that the timing for the first drag in Tsukame is more precise after the low grab/LP inashi compared to the high inashi version? With the high, I can input the drags immediately, but with the low version, there is a delay first. Anyone else noticed this?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, the timing of the first drag in the low-entry tsukami is much less forgiving than the high-entry tsukami. There is a little pause after Goh finishes his vocalizations before you enter the first drag. You're not imagining things


cheers,
kbcat

 

the good news is that the opponent cannot shorten their time when caught by struggling, according to 1/60. So you just need to adjust the timing of your first drag.

 

what trick in goh's sleeve will stop sarah's various flamingo kicks... /versus/images/graemlins/mad.gif /versus/images/graemlins/mad.gif /versus/images/graemlins/mad.gif

 

I'm not that experienced, but in theory I think the MK sabaki is a good option.

But of course, you know it's never as easy as just a sabaki. That only defends the mid level, but imo that's the most important level to control. That's only one option for defending the mid level. That's all I can think of out of my little experience /versus/images/graemlins/crazy.gif .

 

Ok...but she has to kick before you input the command...I'm not quite familiar with all of sarah's F. kicks...Im looking for something along the lines of an attack. /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif But "in theory" that would definatly work

 

Anyone know any good setups for /+?

 

After a knockdown, just immediately dash forward and use it to trip the opponent's techroll. Use + if you think they'll roll away from the screen, + if they dodge towards the screen. The same rule applies to dodges.

 

I don't konw if both will work??? /versus/images/graemlins/confused.gif

+ >/ + > +
or
+ > ++ > + (i think this will be out)

Need to be fast!!!

 

<font color="yellow"> I have a couple of questions about Goh:
I have really been enjoying the + throw lately because of the high damage and setup and actually find it much better than his other ending throw options. Just curious as to what other Goh players are using?

Also, I have been abusing the hell out of P as that move is very quick, has some kind of mid avoidance properties built into it, and can catch backdashers. It sets up throws, evades, the shoulder ram, you name it. Can anybody tell me the advantage, if any, on counter hit? I know it is -2 on normal, but as far as counter or block, I don't have a clue.

In this game, when your opponent techrolls, and you are talking about getting a free hit, although hard to time, does this allow for mids as well? I seem to get a when my opponent techrolls, then they have to guess due to the stagger, but is the / a better option?

After a counter hit , , ducking , standing , opponent techrolls, I land a in their back, and they are backstaggered. Are there any good followups after the backstagger? is good only if they are semi-near a wall to keep them in close distance, but if they are not near a wall, it seems that I can only land a and that is shitty.

after hits, if your opponent breaks the stagger, what is a good option? It seems that they are too far for a throw attempt and I have been landing a lot or tsukame throw from time to time as well. Are there any better options?

Last question: If my opponent backrolls, what is the disadvantage? Is it like techroll where they can't block for a split second? Or is it only a mid/low guessing game in my favor?

thanks again,

conk out,
not unstoppable, just...

UNCONKABLE!!!! </font>