Guarding, adv and disadv: n00bish questions?

OK, I have some incredibly stupid questions that probably highlight a deep misunderstanding of the whole game system. Brace yourselves!

*drum roll*

1 - What's the execution time of a guard? After the game receives the signal from the Guard button, how long will it take before I'm actually guarding?

2 - What's the "recovery" time of a guard? I mean, after the game detects the fact that I stopped holding down the G button, how long before I'll be able to do another move?

3 - All of the disadvantages/advantages seem really tiny to me. But how they can actually mean DEATH?

I'm having a look at Pai's moves list. A guarded /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif leaves you at -6. Now, I stupidly wonder what can my opponent do with it, there's no moves that have a 6 frame execution time, are there?
Or shall I consider the recovery time (which I believe should be the total time minus the execution time AND the action time, correct me if I'm wrong) as part of the disadvantage? In which case we'd have:
37-14-2 = 21 plus 6 frames of disadvantage a total 27 frames?

Same thing for advantage...

I thought I "knew" all of this but now that I stop and think about it I feel like it doesn't make any sense.

Can anybody help me?

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shocked.gif

 

I thought that the values under the Grd column referred to the situation of the attacker if the moves is guarded (i.e. how quickly the attacker will be able to perform another action after the attack has been blocked) and not the situation of the defender guarding the attack.
In other words, does the "guard stun" of the defender depends on the attack?

For the rest thanks, I remember reading that like a yewar ago when I got into VF2 again but I hadn't revised it since I had VF5

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

 

Ok, I think I got it now.
It seems that a lot is based on the fact that the guarded attacker will attempt another attack after his first one and that if the defender fights back, having the advantage, he will win the "clash" (unless he fights back with a very slow move).

Isn't this kind of fighting hoping for the opponent to make suboptimal moves?

I mean, if I'm playing Akira and my opponent is kinda passive, I can just spam a SDE and guard (crouch guard if I feel like I have perfect yomi) & throw escape soon after it and I'll be eternally safe?

 

Myke thank you very much for all the explanations. By passive I would mean somebody who wouldn't attack first, so that I'd have to do all of the first attacks and he would rely solely on attacking after having guarded my attack.
Of course if all of my offence was based on SDE I'm sure he could do many things like evade and attack, interrupt, reverse, try to make me miss the hit completely.

I think I was probably just surprised by how few attacks actually leave the attacker with a disadvantage (on guard) bigger than the minum required for a guaranteed hit (I see Akira's punch has 11 frames of execution on the command list, Pai's 10).

But, in the same way, few attacks give you an advantage for a guaranteed hit.

I reckon the two things even out and make the game what it is in the end.

Again, thanks for all the baby-sitting!

 

Would be cool if somebody could make a note of this in the Wiki.

 

I thought "machi" referred to being cheap. Like tick throwing in the original SF2??? Or any other cheap tactic in a fighting game.

 

Nah, machi is definitely turtling, not being cheap. Ask the wiki if you don't believe me /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

 

There's often a negative connotation when using the term "machi" but it doesn't mean cheap. It just refers to turtling. Some players feel that machi play is cheap though.

Side note, I don't think tick-throwing is cheap in SF2, I think it actually makes some matches more interesting.

 

Question. If I'm Sarah, does my jab hit on the 10th frame or 11th frame? Same for throws, do they make contact on the 12th or 13th frame?

 

I believe the 11th and 12th frames are both hit frames for sarah's standing punch. And throws connect on the 12th frame.

 

In the original SF2 tick-throwing was unstoppable. That was why they added the counter-throw by holding back, because it was impossible to counter before that. Some dude used Guile and smoked everyone in tournies by ticking in the original, that was what prompted the addition of the counter throw.

 

Oops... akai's right. I misunderstood the frame data on the move lists when I posted before... helps to actually read the legend.