happy fun fact time

did you know! that whiffed low in-place rising attacks recover both low AND high? meaning that if your opponent misses his low in-place rising attack, you have a choice of punishing him with a high OR low throw (assuming you have a low throw capable character).

not entirely certain if whiffed in-place risings are vulnerable to high attacks, though.

known this for ages and ages. thought i'd share.

 

Not to be a pest about it, but I would like to elaborate, as well as some disagreements.

1) All Characters (except Akira and Taka)
High rising kick
Face-down, head toward the enemy, rolling forward (away from the enemy).

Even though this is high rising kick, it recovers low. If blocked, the only counter move is low-throw; even P will not connect. If whiffed, low-throw is guaranteed (but NOT the high-throw).

2) All characters (except Akira and Taka)
In-place Low-rising kick, no delay
Face up, feet toward the enemy.

If blocked, situation becomes same as when you block other low-rising attacks (though guaranteed elbow is hard to connect). However, if whiffed, it recovers HIGH, so high-throw becomes possible.

did you know! that whiffed low in-place rising attacks recover both low AND high?

I think this confusion comes from whether there was a delay in in-place low-rising kick. If in-place low-rising kick with NO delay whiffs, it recovers HIGH. If there is any delay, it recovers low and low-throw is guaranteed. It is difficult to distinguish the situation, as very slight delay in the kick alters the circumstances.

There are many other special topics for rising attacks (p138 on Gamest TB book), but I omit those for now to avoid further confusion.

 

well fuck me.

 

Phew, I didn't know half this stuff.

ice-9 | Sennin

 

could we commission a translation of the gamest mooks? there's probably lots of other little stuff in there that most of most of us don't know or are somewhat confused about.

 

Re: TB mook translation

This Gamest TB book is indeed very good. Gamest for the first time actually hired many experts for each character. Previously, they assigned their in-house writers to play some characters, even though they may not be up to the standard (well, except for Kyasao and Chacky, perhaps).

As for the translations, I found general strategies very useful. It also includes minute details about counters and frame stats, but I tend to ignore those myself. It may be just me though.

I was thinking of starting to translate the interview sections, such as Chibita, Ohsu Akira, Kurita and so forth. They don't really help you learn the game, but interesting read nonetheless.

So what do you guys think? What do you want to read? (provided that such stuff is in the TB book, duh).

 

Re: TB mook translation

Honestly I would love to read the interviews. Anything technical is great, but that is up to you Anything that could take us all by surprise would be good too (nothing obscene though). I think reading about the players is some of the more interesting aspects of being bound together by something like VF3tb. It's great to know the types of people and all. In fact, that's why I like it when you guys post pictures and stuff here. I haven't even seen any publications of Gamest to be honest. Pictures of that would be great too!
-Chanchai

 

Re: happy *Shun* fact time

Myke - you want a fun fact?

Shun players, try this one on for size. The chouwan following df+P+G can be escaped. To make this possible, the opponent must be anticipating the df+P+G, chouwan and buffer in a crouch dash alomost at the instant the Shun player inputs df+P+G. Godeater, Jo and I bashed heads for a day on the DC and tried this out. Jo had seen it done in Hong Kong and had succesfully escaped Kbcat's chouwans in the arcade but this was the first time on the DC. We got it on tape for all to see.

Now, I know some may think that this destroys all the power that Shun has but really it doesn't - only excellent yomi will allow one to pull this off. If you react to the df+P+G once Shun is rolling over you, too late; Shun's chouwan is gong to crush you.

cheers,

<font color=white> Llanfair the prized <font color=green>cabbage</font color=green></font color=white>

 

Re: TB mook translation

Shota: I hate to be one to disagree with the established regulars,being only a newbie scrub and all, but I'd rather see any time you spend translating gamest used to cover the kinds of things you talked about in the first post you put into this thread. Where else can we learn this technical stuff? The interviews might be fun to read, but I don't think they will be as helpful as the stuff you wrote about rising attacks. Even the experts seemed to appreciate it, without an argument. How often does that happen around here? In fact, you hinted that there was more stuff there about rising attacks, but you wanted to avoid confusing people. Why don't you finish translating the rest of this stuff about rising attacks? Don't worry about confusing us. I think a lot of us are excited about learning more facts! I can't find any FAQs or real information about rising attacks anywhere else on the net, so you will be filling a real gap. Also, could you please check under the thread titled "Shun's P+E"? There is a request there for your help in translating something (just a few words) in the gamest that you probably can do real quickly. Thanks.
Wolfstudent

 

Re: happy *Shun* fact time

a real CD, or can you just hold DF like you can against Kage's f+P+G, DP?

 

Re: happy *Shun* fact time

Hmm...dunno, really. When I succesfully did it on saturday I was using a full CD, ie. df,DF.

I have not tested it with just holding DF like the Kage situation, however, I think they run on the same type of mechanics so it's quite possible that DF would work.

We also didn't test it for different slopes, etc. I would imagine that it would be easier to escape on a downslope like the f+P+G, DP situation as well.

cheers,

<font color=white> Llanfair the prized <font color=green>cabbage</font color=green></font color=white>

 

Re: happy *Shun* fact time

Hmmmm...could it be possible that the chouwan came out late? Not buffered? I wish I could test this out myself, but I'd need another person to either SE -> chouwan or someone to CD well.

Nelson, how about getting together with Hiro to give this a try? If this is true, Shun is tremendously underpowered since players with a fast CD should be able to buffer it in quite easily upon recognizing an SE in its initial animation (which is not that hard to do).

That said, however, I must express my reservations about this finding. A "fact" this important should have been found much earlier and publicized a lot faster.

ice-9 | Sennin

 

Re: happy *Shun* fact time

Ice - I know you have reservations. Who wouldn't? Do you not remember me talking to you about this at the Chicago gathering?

This escape truly exists, and no, the chouwan was not too slow - I trust Jo Shun's input skills. It is more difficult than you realize, the chances are slim if the animation for the df+P+G has already come out. THe opponent must yomi the df+P+G and buffer the CD seriously early. If you look at the frame stats for the recovery from df+P+G for Shun and the execution of the chouwan , both are 13 frames meaning that an escape is indeed possible just very difficult to pull off.

cheers,

<font color=white> Llanfair the prized <font color=green>cabbage</font color=green></font color=white>

 

Re: happy *Shun* fact time

This escape truly exists, and no, the chouwan was not too slow - I trust Jo Shun's input skills. It is more difficult than you realize, the chances are slim if the animation for the df+P+G has already come out

I'll back up Llanfair. Jo has escaped two of my chouwans in combat--and I don't think I was being pokey either.


cheers,

<font face="Arial, Helvetica" color="#3366ff">kbcat</font>

 

Re: happy *Shun* fact time

This is a very interesting and scary possibility were talking about ice.
When you come down for thanksgiving we can try it out to know for sure.
I'm assuming however that even if escape is possible, in the middle of an intense fight such as ghetto vs. ice it would be about as difficult to execute as escaping one of adamYUKIs S.P.O.D.S , so that brings me a bit of comfort.
It's hard enough to win consistently with SHUN, I don't need this to make matters worse.

 

brain drool...bored. thought i waste my time in a slightly informative way. more happy fun facts i remembered at random. some useless, some interesting. feel free to tear me apart.

kage's P+K is vulnerable to mids; the interesting thing is that he can be staggered by elbows/sidekicks etc. considering it recovers low it makes sense, but what doesn't is that his DP is also vulnerable to being staggered. however i don't know if it depends on if, or how long, he CD's. i also think shun's chouwan is vulnerable to staggers, too. anyone know of any other moves like this? i seem to think wolf's b,f+P+K is, but that just might be the insanity..

wolf's TT d+K recovers high...although actually i'm pretty sure that it was changed in TB and now recovers low (wish they had kept the low-recovering TT high kicks from VF2).

the "Hedge Hog Company" sign in pai's stage with the sonic logo has the instructions on how to do kage's shinsodan (at least i'm pretty sure it's that sign. i know for certain it's on one of them).

TFT knee P,P, kickflip (97? points) is possible on wolf/jeff in wolf's stage. knee has to be deep (the 47 point knee, too). best place to do the TFT is at the crest of one of the little valleys.

there's more but i've gone a little more brain dead than usual right now and i can't remember.

 

Re: happy *Shun* fact time - why don't we escape the d/f+p+g in the first place if ...

we anticipate the d/f+p+g "early enough" and exactly this is the criteria for escaping the chouwan?

 

Re: happy *Shun* fact time

Nelson - spot on. It's really much more difficult than people realize to do in actual combat. Perhaps someone will be able to escape the chouwan once but that won't matter. Your Shun will still be able to be troublesome and deadly.

Shun's known for his unusual setups and tricks that most don't see the df+P+G coming. As Dickson points out, one should just escape the throw - too true, but everyone misses throw escapes all the time. It's very much like escaping the SPoD in the sense that you have to *know* it's coming.

Ice, you mention that something like this would have come out as info ages ago. I did come out ages ago. Jo's known about this for over a year. Not everything is known by Gamest or the Japanese and not everything is widely distributed - I mean look at the shit that Akira Kid could do in VF2 that no one knew about until Hyun brought back the famous tape.

What does this mean to Shun players? Not much - keep doing df+P+G, chouwan, it's a brutal combination. Chances of escape are slim but just be aware that escape is possible. And when someone does escape it, don't let it throw off your gameplay with "huh?!, wtf?!" just keep going with being tricky and have fun.

cheers,


<font color=white> Llanfair the prized <font color=green>cabbage</font color=green></font color=white>