Hardcore questions.

Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by The Dude, Feb 25, 2002.

  1. The Dude

    The Dude Well-Known Member

    Let's say you mC punch Akira's shrm w/ Pai. Do you get the hit frame advantage or the MC frame advantage?

    If your throw is interupted by an attack is it considered to be MC?

    What is the requirement for Lion to get a crumple on his b,f p+k,p,p? I only ever get regular hits and staggers. But Chibita damn near always gets the crumple.

    What is the proper technique to struggling? I just wiggle the stick back and forth while holding guard. That seems to be good enough to prevent otherwise guaranteed attacks.
     
  2. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    To struggle, I usually hold Guard and spin the stick in circles. At some point, I became confident in knowing when I recover with that technique too. This is probably the one thing I like about using US sticks if anything, in terms of VF.

    -Chanchai
     
  3. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    hit stun is I think based on damage? So minor counter punch with pai is ... 25% was it? more damage...there should be slightly longer hit stun. Not as much as major counter stun, but more than no counter.

    If your throw is interrupted by an attack, I'm almost postive it isn't a major counter, I've hit opponents with lau's upknife before when they were expecting something else, and the upknife hit them out of a throw attempt/throw reversal. But! one time I reversed wrong and I swear that the opponent's attack hit as a major counter - I reversed mid and aoi did a sweep, and the sweep knocked down.

    Requirement for the lion thing must be major counter, neh?
    Most chibita movies you've seen are on version B, I dunno if that particular move was changed or not on version C.

    Struggling: chanchai covered it pretty well. The important thing to remember is that struggling has two phases... no attack commands are accepted/buffered during the first split second of struggling, and then when you're close to the end of the struggling (I think the struggling joystick icon is green and then turns red when you reach this point?) you have to be more careful of what you enter. So I always spaz out the instant I see I'm staggered, and then a short time before the stagger is gonna end, I switch from spazzing out on the buttons to holding guard.

    Holding guard while wiggling is good. Holding guard while rolling is better, since wiggling only gets you left/right/left/right inputs as you move across neutral, while rolling never touches neutral and is a steady stream of inputs: d, d/f, f, u/f, u... you get the idea.

    The idea also applies to getting out of pounces. In the PS2 training example, akira is gonna pounce on you after his dodge attack. It's best to spaz out first, then quickly switch to tapping down and guard to ensure you roll away. If you keep spazzing, your character will try to get up normally (eats the pounce), or get up with a kick (eats the pounce), or roll back (eats the pounce).
     
  4. The Dude

    The Dude Well-Known Member

    So mC's are sort of a in between thing then huh?

    Everytime I swear hitting a throw only counts as a hit, I see something that makes me question it though.

    You'd think it would be a MC right? But I have never seen it crumple outside of a Chibita fight. Which baffles me as it's a string I use often.

    Looks like I'm going to have to switch to rolling 360's. I've never liked the idea of doing it though. Even in street fighter games. I've never been the type to mash out commands, like tech rolls or strings. I always try and time it.

    Thanks for the help.
     
  5. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    no shame in mashing, it works great on TR's and some multi-throws and stuff...

    I don't play lion regularly, but the next time I turn on the PS2 I'll try to remember to test it.
     
  6. Blondie

    Blondie Well-Known Member

    Hey I've got a somewhat Hardcore question. As I get better with throw breaking I'm noticing that after different throw breaks, the broken character looks staggered and in some cases faces in all different directions depending on the throw broken.

    My question is: Is there an advantage for the person breaking the throw. And also, Is there a way of telling which way the character is going to be positioned after a broken throw.

    Or will I just have to know what position my opponent is at on reaction? With such an emphasis on throwing in VF, you'd think there would be a way of telling this.
     
  7. Yupa

    Yupa Well-Known Member

    My question is: Is there an advantage for the person breaking the throw. And also, Is there a way of telling which way the character is going to be positioned after a broken throw.

    Most throw reversals leave both characters with the same initiative, but there are exceptions.
    I think a side throw is guaranteed after a couple of Sarah's throws are escaped... but I'm not sure enough of specifics to comment further at the moment... but side throws are escapable in VF4 too... =)

    You'll learn the positioning after different kinds of throws are reversed with experience. It's always the same. At high levels, you'll find that players actually take into account where they would end up if their throw was reversed and change their throw of choice accordingly. You may find yourself relying on a throw being reversed to change ring position and/or waste time i.e. the Bryant's ff+P+G.
     
  8. kbcat

    kbcat Well-Known Member

    Lion's b,f+P+KPP

    The third and final P causes the KD but only on MC. It's unlikely that you'll ever get the CPU to get crumpled by that move. But, it's still in there (note in Ver C you can't delay the last P as much as you could in ver B).


    cheers,
    kbcat
     
  9. LittleWild

    LittleWild Well-Known Member

    The disavantage the opponent suffers is listed on the frame stats. Look for the throw section and check out the "blocked" column.
     
  10. LittleWild

    LittleWild Well-Known Member

    mC receives the frame difference as a nomal hit.

    In ver.B I have never seen lion's 46P+K,P,P causing a stomach crumble when I played him (even though I MC with last hit). In the Chibita movies, the move crumbles an opponent during an MC on the last hit.
     
  11. Jason Cha

    Jason Cha Well-Known Member

    "If your throw is interrupted by an attack, I'm almost postive it isn't a major counter, I've hit opponents with lau's upknife before when they were expecting something else, and the upknife hit them out of a throw attempt/throw reversal. But! one time I reversed wrong and I swear that the opponent's attack hit as a major counter - I reversed mid and aoi did a sweep, and the sweep knocked down."

    Matt, I've had the exact same thought. I forgot whether it was a sweep or something like Akira's SDE, but I could have sworn I was doing a throw but I got MC'd by a move that has a different effect on MC.

    -Jason
     
  12. Sausage Man

    Sausage Man Active Member

    The last punch has to be delayed, not to mention you have to trick an opponent into actually doing something during that phase to get the major counter. Lots of b, f+P+K, P and then throw can usually set your opponent up to attack during this part. The third punch is throw counterable I think, so most don't use it. Not to mention that Chibita abuses lots of things that most safe players would never use.
     
  13. uk-guy

    uk-guy Well-Known Member

    The verB that we have in Western arcades is NOT the verB that was in Japan. We can never get the crumple on the last b,f+P+K,P,P in the Casino verB VF4 arcade machine, but in Japan I saw Chibita on Jap verB get the crumple plenty. I think Kyasao mentioned that the Jap verB is like B.1 or something because it was slightly changed from the worldwide B release.

    err...hope that clears some stuffup


    BTW Lions QCB+P can be thrown, but if the Lion decides to do QCB+PP you can block the first punch and then throw interupt his next punch! Basically Lion has to do throw escapes after the QCB+P move now, making it less of a pain than in verB.
     
  14. stompoutloud

    stompoutloud Well-Known Member

    Well, as for your response about where you end up after you break a throw. I have found that for Pai, if Pai does her f+P+G throw at me and I reverse it I will be facing her side. And when she does her f, b+P+G throw which throws me backwards, if I break that throw, I will end up in front of her and can quickly counter her. So mostly, I have noticed that I will end up at her side or in front of her. Just to let you know.
     
  15. Jason Cha

    Jason Cha Well-Known Member

    "BTW Lions QCB+P can be thrown, but if the Lion decides to do QCB+PP you can block the first punch and then throw interupt his next punch!"

    Throw interrupt? I hope you mean with a catch throw. Still, with the execution of the second meteor punch at 27, I suppose there is time for a catch throw in the meantime.

    Aside from throw interrupts, when you think about it, the block disadvantage for Lion after a blocked QCB+P is 10... which is technically throw counterable, but most people won't be able to do it on instinct, esp. if they are wondering if the second P is going to come out or not.

    -Jason
     
  16. ken

    ken Well-Known Member

    Lion's Metor Punch : QCB+P, P

    After the the first punch lion can be thrown regardless of whether he does the only the first or second punch. This is only for ver C.

    The throw will interrupt the second punch. Any throw will suffice.
     
  17. Jason Cha

    Jason Cha Well-Known Member

    I find this hard to believe, but I'll test it tonight...

    -Jason
     
  18. feixaq

    feixaq Well-Known Member

    Tested it already. It's true, Jason! And you can throw Lion with *any* throw in between QCB+P and QCB+PP, not just a catch throw. Hahahahaha....
     
  19. MrWhite

    MrWhite Well-Known Member

    and people have been wondering about interrupt throws...
     
  20. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    Well, I figure it's certainly a tweaked property in the game. And as much as I hate to admit it, it was probably a good move since the meteor punch can be quite nasty/versus/images/icons/wink.gif

    I figure all moves that can be throw interrrupted were tweaked purposefully and directly to carry that property. An exception as opposed to a rule.

    -Chanchai
     

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