Hayward VF4 Final! A & B

Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by akiralove, Jul 16, 2001.

  1. akiralove

    akiralove Well-Known Member

    VF4 Report from Hayward, Part 4

    Okay guys, here it is, the final report.  This one’ll have most of the
    fun stuff.

    Quick note on CPU AI: I was watching some random clip yesterday when I
    noticed CPU Jacky doing some cool shit.  This is vs. A human, BTW.
    Jacky did P (G), which the player guarded, then Jacky did the
    Clothesline (F,F+P+G).  It may not sound like much, but he did it really
    quickly, like a human player forcing the oppt. to guard, then throwing.
    What’s more, in the same round just a moment later, Jacky did P (G)
    which hit the guy playing, then he did another single P(G), that was
    guarded, then the clothesline AGAIN!  It was hilarious, and really
    intelligent on the part of the CPU I thought.  It was just cool to see
    it use the same flowchart with a little change twice in one round.


    Here’s where VF4 outshines all previous VFs, and every other fighting
    game I can think of.  I remember reading at Core that the AM2 team said
    they put most of their efforts into the animation and characters, and it
    really shows.  If the stages are lackluster (and they really aren’t,
    even if that’s the overall impression I gave in my last report), the
    characters more than make up for it.  In both animation and models, they
    are superb.  Having really immersed myself in VF starting with 2
    (although I did play 1 some), I was a little disappointed with some of
    the animation in 3.  I felt some of the characters moves looked stiff,
    jerky, and less stylish than in 2.  But in 4, not only does everything
    look REALLY smooth, but all the characters animation looks better than
    ever, with the possible exception of Lion, who I’ll probably always feel
    was at his coolest in 2.

    Most animation seems to improved by having more definition between the
    beginning and end of the move.  Some people noticed that Akira’s Dashing
    Elbow looks slower, but it doesn’t feel slower at all, it’s just easier
    to see what’s happening as he winds up, rather than snapping almost
    instantly into the completed move like he does in VF3.  It’s hard to
    know how they did this, it’s not like the frame rate increased…

    On top of all the fighting animation, there are the intros (each
    character has at least 3 for sure, but maybe 4), the victory poses (same
    deal, 3 maybe 4), ring out animation, new hit animations, time over,
    waiting to continue (defeated by CPU), and even a special animation for
    when you press start to continue.  They’re always moving somehow.

    If you haven’t seen any of the clips, characters begin a fight with an
    intro sequence, that usually lasts about 3 seconds, and has a couple
    cuts/angle changes.  They also talk most of the time, but sometimes they
    just yell or ki-ai or hiss or whatever.  These are a nice addition.  The
    victory poses are the same as they ever were, but now they talk to the
    camera a little more than before.  You can still select different poses
    by holding the buttons.  They only drag about the poses is that in the
    beta, they usually always happened at the same camera angle.  Sometimes
    this is cool as the camera gets really close, but it’s be nice if it’s
    mixed up in the final.  I also noted in another post that there are no
    longer replays or victory poses after each round, just the final round.

    The ring out animation is probably the coolest addition.  Unlike VF3,
    when your character goes out of the ring, they don’t just do some
    generic "flop" animation.  They stumble out of the ring, and go into
    some unique routine ring side.  Jeffry gets all pissed and shakes his
    fists while stomping around.  My favorite is Akira, who continues to
    hold his fighting stance for a moment before looking left, then right,
    then realizing he isn’t in the ring anymore.  It’s pretty funny, and is
    one of many goofy animations that give VF4 something it’s predecessors
    were lacking in: a sense of humor.

    Mind you, the game still comes off as pretty serious, it’s just that at
    some moments (usually involving Wolf and Jeffry), it gets downright
    hilarious.  It’s cool because the fighters are so well realized that
    they can go from really serious and hardened looking to letting go with
    some goofy taunt that’s like something out of Nintendo’s Punch Out.  AM2
    kept most of this to the big guys, like I said; but I really like it.
    It’s like you can get all serious and into it with the intro, then crack
    your ass up when you win.

    The other new bit of animation comes after loosing to the CPU, when your
    character goes into a special pose and broods while he/she is waiting
    for you to continue.  This was done in the earlier games, but it’s more
    pronounced and specific now.  Jeffry looks at the camera and shakes his
    fists at you, egging you on.  Each time his hands move, the camera jerks
    forward a little more in unison.  When it gets close, the angle changes
    and it starts again.  Akira goes down on one knee, staring at the ground
    shaking his head.  The camera is just over his shoulder behind him.  If
    you continue, he looks up and the screen zooms right into his face very
    quickly; like he’s been re-ignited.  If you don’t continue, at 0 he
    slams his fist into the ground and the whole screen shakes.  It looks
    great, and draws you into the game a little.

    These guys are now overflowing with animation.  You have to see it,
    we’ll be seeing new things for weeks.



    Along with Aoi, Pai was the only char. I didn’t try the day I played.  I
    can say that she has a good amount of new commands, and seems like
    she’ll be great in the hands of a good player.  While her 1P costume is
    a little bland, even when compared to her 1P VF2 costume; her 2P looks
    awesome.  I like the color scheme, and it all moves nicely.  Her shoes
    are cool, as is her little hat.  During her intros Pai’s face looks very
    slightly edgy, especially in her 1P as her hair etc. is pulled away from
    her face.  If you look at the old shots where she’s looking at the
    camera with her hands up, you can see it.  She’s the only character that
    suffers from this, but it’s very minor.

    From what I saw, a lot of Pai’s new chains are fast, and some of them
    lunge forward a good bit.  Her KPK combo is quick if I remember
    correctly, and I also remember seeing a new PPKK combo.  I think she
    can  also start a chain from sweep, but I could be wrong.  Many of her
    new moves reminded me of Ein in DOA2, the way he lunges at you while
    switching levels and attacking quickly mixing spin kicks with straight
    hand strikes.  The animation of her f,b+P+G wall throw is really nice,
    and it takes good damage.  Most of her moves take similar damage to her
    VF3 self, with a few exceptions, like her standing K+G kicks.  If you
    get nailed with a b+K+G, it’ll eat about ¼ to 1/3rd of the life bar in
    the version I played.  Her d+K+G seemingly cannot be PKG rolled out of,
    and a pounce seems guaranteed.  If you check out her sequence at the
    Sega site, you can see her new "stance", but Yamcha and I couldn’t
    figure out exactly what this did, she sort of steps back and poses.
    Most of her air combos do similar damage to 3 as well, but I think
    people will be comboing like crazy with her.  I noticed that after
    blocking her PPPu/b+K, it feels like a throw isn’t guaranteed.  Even
    after a flat out run at her, it still looked like she could recover
    first.  She also has some kind of new jumping forward middle spin kick.
    Pai’s dodge attack looks like her b+K+G.  I’m not sure what her charge
    attack is.  Even though I didn’t try her, Pai looks like a lot of fun to
    play this time.


    Lau looks like a badass, he also looks about 15 years older.  Even in
    VF3 his face was still pretty smooth, not anymore.  He shows the use of
    Shen Mue techniques more than anyone else IMO, as his wrinkled face has
    that kind of rubbery quality that many Shen Mue characters have.  Both
    his costumes have tons of detail, the dragon on the front of his
    green/gold/maroon outfit is beautiful, and draws further ties between
    Lau and the villain of Shen Mue.  I like the genie shoes.  The only
    strange thing about Lau visually is that in this build his hair on his
    head is sort of like a smooth, black egg with a hair texture.  It isn’t
    shiny, and it’s not noticeable right away.  I only saw it during his
    loosing pose, when he bent down.  The blue light shone on it and
    revealed it to be perfectly smooth.  This kind of thing is what I meant
    back in my fisrt post when I said they used polys only right where they
    needed to.   They spared no expense on other parts of his model, but
    probably just figured you’d never notice the top of his head.  Jeffry’s
    head has the same issue.

    I guess that Lau’s animation has been completely re-done from the ground
    up.  One of the agendas of AM2       would seem to be to make sure to
    accentuate differences between characters, even when they have similar
    moves.  Lau’s elbow no longer looks like Sarah, Jacky and Kage’s elbow.
    It’s not a huge difference, but it’s there.  His elbow palm looks pretty
    different than before.  He seems to have lost a little range with some
    moves, but it might have been my imagination.  Many VF4 characters have
    a slightly more "compact" feel to them; seems like they have a little
    less range, their limbs feel a little shorter etc.  Strangely, while
    sometimes Lau’s arms seem shorter (like during his b,b+P), they seem
    longer at other times, like during his single palms.

    His Double Palm, a charge attack, is now done by simply hitting
    (holding) P+K.  The quickest version seems a little quicker than the old
    one.  The new b+P dodges slightly, and the K you can add floats enough
    to do a b,b+P, PPP,d+K.  It isn’t  a high float, but the b,b+P… hits
    really low now.  He has a d+K, K+G like Pai’s low kick, sweep.  The
    Chisotai (f,d+K) is still one leg, and seems about the same, maybe a
    little slower or something, I couldn’t put my finger on it ( Jeff….?).
    Since the crouch dash is so easy now,  standing Upper Cut Knife Hand
    combos are easy to do.  I couldn’t get his d/f, d/f+P to come out, and I
    don’t remember seeing the ShakaShou (d/f+P) either, but I’m sure that
    one must be there.  He has a couple new elbow strikes, but I can’t
    remember the commands/exact animations (something with P+K).  One of
    them sort of turns and comes up from lower.  Still has the P,b+P,f+P.
    Didn’t see any new throws.  Was able to do the elbow, palm, d/f,d/f+P+G
    seamlessly.  I forgot to try the giant K+G.  His dodge attack is a new
    single palm, looks like it has good range.

    I’d say Lau’s gonna be a monster, given the new combo game, and he
    doesn’t seem to have suffered any losses overall.  One of his victory
    poses is hilarious, he talks to the camera while holding his hand out in
    front of him, closed with his thumb out level.  He starts to move his
    arm, and when I was expecting him to make a "thumbs down", he dropped
    his hand down and points at his crotch!


    Wolf has been powered up pretty substantially, and is the receiver of a
    revamped throw game that gives him a big advantage.  He looks good,
    which was a relief after some of the screens I saw.  His face animates
    nicely, and his new personality is both serious and totally goofy.  His
    jaw and chin are wide now, and his neck is also wide, giving his head a
    kind of bell shape.  Sometimes he reminds me of a bratty fat kid from
    the 6th grade.  His voice is deep and a little froggy now.  His taunts
    are really funny, he look at the screen and says stuff like "So…..what?"
    or  blowing you off with his hand "Awww…. Go back to school!".  When
    he’s wearing the indian costume with the feathers flopping around on his
    face, it’s just too fuckin’ goofy that he says this stuff, it’s great!
    In contrast, during his howl he doesn’t look funny at all, he looks hard
    as hell.  The indian costume isn’t as cool as it could have been, and is
    probably the only letdown for me about the new Wolf.

    While most of his throws seem to function the same as before (aside from
    the small exe. time all throws have now)- the SSD, Wrist Lock, Body
    Slam, Catch, Frankensteiner, Arm Whip; the 2 big exceptions are the
    Brain Buster (P+G) and the Giant Swing.

    The Brain Buster is kind of a mystery to me.  When you hit P+G, he
    lunges forward quickly, a little farther than when he’s doing the Arm
    Whip (f,f+P+G), and it actually looks like he’s missed a catch throw.
    Then just as that animation ends, he makes another noise and the B.B.
    begins.  It’s like a double throw.  Like I said, I don’t totally
    understand it yet, but it’s pretty deceptive and strong.

    As noted elsewhere, the Giant Swing is crazy now.  Remember how Jeffry
    could pick up Shun from anywhere on the screen in 2 if Shun was sitting
    down?  It’s kind of like that, without that much range obviously.  Or
    like Zangief’s Spinning Piledriver in SF2 Turbo, Hyper Fighting.   He
    lunges forward really quick, and if you’re standing, it’s like you get
    sucked in.  In counter situations, it never misses.  On top of that,
    it’s damage occurs gradually during the throw, with the last bit tagged
    on when you hit the ground.  If you don’t PKG roll, you’ll eat about 60%
    damage; rolling takes away that last little bit, giving about normal GS
    damage.  If he misses, he has a small special animation (looks like a
    normal missed throw, but a little lower), and he ends up right in front
    of you.  The range is probably just a little over the "ready, go"
    distance.  I think Wolf can probably nail the GS off the line at the
    beginning of the round.  Following up seems impossible now, as it looks
    like he recovers slower.  People better learn quick to TE the GS!

    Since moves can be done out of dashes way later than before, the SSD
    (d/f,d/f+P+G) also has better range, I’d imagine the Arm Whip does as
    well.  Most of the throws from the Catch seem the same.  His dodge
    attack is a dodge to the side, then a small lunge into a throw.  It
    works really well.  If you get them from the side, you’ll get the leg
    scissors (which can be escaped), and if it hits in back you get the Back
    Suplex (like doing b+P+G from the Catch), and it looks like you could RO
    with it if you were placed right.  Or maybe this happens from the front…
    I’m not positive.  The suplex seemed to come out more than the side

    The Short Shoulder is slower than before, but it gives a goos float,
    still goes under high attacks, and the screen shakes when he does it.
    SS, P, P, SS is really easy.  I didn’t mess with the knee too much.  His
    Dragonfish Blow (f+P,P) is better.  The Body Blow is quicker and seems
    to have better range, while the second hit also comes out quick now, and
    looks a little different.  The second hit kind of looks like the second
    hit of Zack’s triple uppercut in DOA.  Still has the Lariat, but I’m not
    sure what the command is now (f,f+P?); Grizzly Lariat’s still there,
    too.  He’s the only person so far I’ve found 2 charge attacks for.  The
    first is his Shoulder Tackle (b,f+P), and the second is his P+K backhand
    chop, which looks more effective than in 3.  Screw Lariat still there,
    and most of his K+G moves seem the same, you can still hit downed oppts
    with the b,f+K+G, and the Rolling Sobat looks better now.  Both drop
    kicks still in effect.

    Yamcha and I tried out the low punch reversal, it animated nicely, and
    leaves the oppt’s back exposed.  I’m not sure what followups are
    available.  I couldn’t get his new tackle to come out.  Other than the
    low P reversal, I didn’t see any new moves for him, but I’m sure many
    are there.

    Basically, if you play Wolf, you’re gonna be very happy.


    Like Wolf, Jeffry is kind of a goofball at times now, and at other times
    seems tough.  His 1P costume is the classic Jeffry outfit, but now his
    pants seem like they’re canvas or a heavy linen as opposed to sweat
    pants.  They have a nice texture.  His 2P is kind of a mix of his 2Ps
    from 2 and 3, with the leg shields and armor from 2, and the tie-dye
    shirt form 3 (no shark teeth, though).  In one of the cooler intros in
    the game, he says "what are you doing?!" to the camera, then hits it to
    the ground.  One of his win poses is really goofy, he says either "I
    win" of "I an the winner" and strikes this down on one knee muscle-man
    pose while smiling.  But his face transforms into a crazy cartoon,
    pretty hilarious.  When serious, Jeffry looks much older than before.
    In the past I’d actually heard people say that they didn’t think Jeffry
    was black.  I’m not sure why people would think that, but now Jeffry is
    absolutely 100% a black man, and it’s cool.  His voice is pretty grainy
    now, it doesn’t sound like they’re using the same voice actor for Wolf
    and Jeffry anymore.

    Jeff wrote a nice report on Jeffry in him "mammoth VF4 report!", saying
    that he found Jeffry to be among the strongest characters in VF4.  While
    I did screw around with Jeffry some, I didn’t feel quite as strongly
    about his strength.  The things that make Jeffry stronger now seem to be
    changes to the system that evertone shares, and not really to Jeffry
    himself, IMO.  I’m not saying he’s weak, but I didn’t feel the big jump
    it seems like Jeff did; admittedly I wasn’t using him too much in vs.

    It’s undeniable that he’s powered up due to the ability to do longer air
    combos, and they take nice damage.  He’s also benefited from the same
    dash- throw game as everyone else with f,f and d/f, d/f throws.  But to
    be honest, I felt he wasn’t really spectacular, and had actually been
    weakened in a couple key spots.

    First, his Knee Push (b+K) no longer knocks down every time.  I’m not
    sure exactly what the perimeters are for when it does and doesn’t, but I
    got a standing hit with it a few times.  It might give a stagger on
    certain hits.  I can understand why they did this, when followed by a
    small pounce it was a pretty easy and safe way to chip away at the life
    bar (not that other characters don’t have similar options).

    Second, as I mentioned in the throws section, his Devil Reverse Claw has
    been slowed WAY down.  You can still use it, you’ve just gotta be

    Next, a few of his moves seem to have lost some of their range and/or
    speed.  Remember how I said Lau seemed a little "compacted"?  Jeffry
    seems to have the same thing going on, like his arms are a touch
    shorter.  The Kenka Upper and Middle Hell Stab both suffer a little from
    this.  It could have no actual effect on the usefulness of the moves,
    but they seem to have a little shorter range, and the K.U. seems slower
    to me.  For the moment it seems like he’s lost the Heel Attack (b,f+K),
    although it could be there with the VF2 command, f,d+K.  His new b,f+K,
    the Heel Axe doesn’t look to be any kind of big asset.  It’s not all
    that quick, Jeffry doesn’t move forward at all while doing it, and it’s
    pretty useless as a combo starter as far as I can tell.  I got it to hit
    at the end of a combo, but the result wasn’t anything special.  His old
    Heel Attack had more speed, range etc.

    Lastly, his dodge attack seems weak compared to others.  I’m not really
    sure how to use it.  He does what looks like his elbow drop (b,f+P?)
    from VF2.  It’s range seems pretty short, and it doesn’t knock down,  I
    guess it’s a set-up move.  Perhaps it forces the oppt to crouch?

    I will say that his dash elbow, upper was gotten better ‘cause the upper
    will float now, VF2 style.  DE, upper, P, DE, upper is an easy combo
    that gives some good distance.  Other that the Heel Axe, I couldn’t find
    any new moves for Jeffry, but again I’m sure they’re there.  I’m
    probably just playing devil’s advocate here, and I’m sure Jeffry can be
    every bit as strong as Jeff says.  But as someone who’s spent a good
    portion of my VF time playing Jeffry, I wasn’t blown over by his new
    form; he didn’t seem nearly as improved to me as Wolf or Akira.  Maybe
    it’s just me…


    heh, heh… Kage.  Well, if  you want the definitive report on the changes
    made to Kage, again check out Jeff’s (Ice-9) "Mammoth VF4 Report!"  For
    all intents and purposes, it looks like Kage is almost a totally new
    character in the way he must be played.  The reason?  His main move from
    VF2 and 3, the elbow, has been almost totally reduced to uselessness.
    While Kage players are undoubtedly pissed about this, as a non-Kage
    player, I think it’s interesting.  Not because Kage is weak now, but
    because it looks like we’re gonna see a totally new way of playing him.
    I’m gonna venture a guess that AM2 decided they wanted him to be a
    little more colorful than Kage has been in the last 2 chapters.  From
    what I’ve seen so far from the new Kage, he seems a little like Shun
    now: you might have to use some goofy and tricky moves at the right
    time, and fool the oppt into falling into some traps.  This is total
    speculation, but the first time you see Kage crawl between the oppts
    legs (and I mean CRAWL like baby crawl, not slide like Lion), you’ll
    know what I mean.

    Back to that in a minute.  Kage looks pretty good, despite some
    discomfort expressed by all about his new costume.  In his "Blue Devil"
    costume, one of the first things you’ll notice is he now has a big scar
    across the middle of his face.  It goes from one side to the other in
    diagonal across the bridge of his nose.  It’s pretty defined, not just a
    texture.  At first, his head looked a little big and round in the blue
    get up, but I got used to it quickly and it looks normal now.  It’s like
    the cloth on his head isn’t wrapped as tight, or is thicker.  His pants
    are baggier now, and have a pleat in the side that’s shaded.  He looks
    meaner and more serious in the face.  I’ve actually grown to like the "
    shredder" costume.  It has good detail on the fabric, and the chrome
    effects on his helmet and armor (it’s like a dark chrome) are done
    well.  Thank God I don’t have to see that disco shit anymore…ugh.  I
    never saw Kage’s mask come off in 4 (maybe we have to get 20 wins
    again).   His intros are cool, in one he sort of cartwheels into the
    ring, you’ve all seen the one where he drops in from above.  And his
    victory poses are among the best in the game, IMO.

    Like Jeff said the elbow is VERY slow, I’d say it’s about as fast as
    Jeffry’s Dash Elbow.  The range looks a little better, but it’s really
    slow.  You could probably reverse it visually.  The animation has
    changed too, he puts his hand into his trailing hand as he hits, and
    doesn’t lean forward as much, like he’s kind of sliding sideways.

    While Jeff said the heelkick (d+K+G) seems worse, it seemed about the
    same to me; but he’d know better.  The new dynamics of the TFT are out
    of my range of assessment.  I will say that hitting with the Knee during
    the TFT gives a different hit animation, it seems a little mushy.  He
    says "Ikuzo!" (let’s go) during the Izuna Otoshi.

    The b,b+K+G is WAY slow now, probably the most slowed down move I’ve
    seen.  Again, I have to assume they’re trying to get Kage players away
    from his bread and butter moves here.  His d/b+K on the other hand works
    well, and is difficult to PGK recover from at first.  His dodge attack
    is his old d/f+P+K.  The kick that can now be tagged onto the KageYaiba
    (Dragon Punch) hits the oppt down into the ground, and since it hits
    near the apex of the punch, it won’t work in low-hitting DP combos.

    I had written in an earlier post how I thought his new P+K stance,
    Hagakure Ryuu worked, but I was totally wrong, and now can safely say I
    have no idea how it works.  When you tap P+K, he crosses his arms across
    his chest, and assumes the stance.  He has a new middle kick in this
    stance that looks a little like Akira’s middle kick, and I think he can
    punch as well.  When Yamcha and I tried it, I punched Kage and he
    crawled between my legs, finishing with a little kick to my back side.
    Yamcha also did the roll I previously thought was automatically
    triggered by an attack, he said it’s just P+K again.  I saw him switch
    stance again once here, but have no idea how or what it meant.  I’m even
    more confused after playing and trying it myself.

    I guess one of is charge attacks is his QCF+K handstand move, but again
    here I was a little at a loss.  He would do a little kick, but I
    couldn’t really get him to stay up on his hands.  Didn’t see any of the
    other moves Jeff talked about like b+K,K,K or the new K+G moves… only
    tried him a few times.

    Looks like you’ll have to think a lot to win with Kage now.  I’m excited
    to see how he pans out… maybe I’ll start playing Kage.  Seems like he
    now has the kind of underdog appeal I like.


    Another fun character to use.  She’s getting more and more unique.  It
    has to be said Sarah’s tits and ass look GREAT!  Nice and pointy on the
    topside, and she must’ve worked hard to get all that ass into those
    leather pants.  Seriously though, Sarah is the sex object of VF4
    bigtime.  Her 2P is perhaps my favorite costume in the game.  The punk
    rock studded belt, the boots, just too cool.  Her face, like Pai and Aoi
    looks good.  No more pale, pasty faced zombie girls in VF4.  Sarah
    intros with some cool-headed taunts, like "let’s begin" and another one
    about taking it easy on her.  Can’t really remember her victory poses.

    Sarah was probably my least frequented char. In VF2 and 3, but she seems
    pretty damned fun now.  Her new stance is activated by b+P+K, and it
    comes out with a sort of jumping kick, then she’s standing on her hind
    leg, front leg bent up in front of her.  It doesn’t look like Hwaorang’s
    flamingo.  She moves her hands back and forth quickly Bruce Lee style
    while in the stance.  I know there’s a kind of hit throw from it, but I
    couldn’t do it.  I just did K,K d+K, and d+K.  Yamcha was saying that
    you can punch to end the stance. She can move back and forth if I
    remember correctly, but I’m not sure about side stepping/8-way movement.

    She has almost all her old moves, I couldn’t find one she didn’t have,
    but I only tried her once or twice.  Still has the Moonsault.  All her
    throws seem intact, but I didn’t try her catch throw.  I’m not sure what
    her dodge attack is.  Her charge attack …

    I think I’ll be screwing around with Sarah some as well this time,
    really fun.  Sometimes during her win pose, the light reflects off her


    "Come on, boy!"  Jacky’s so Billy Idol it’s a joke.  They should just
    give him the accent.  He’s one of the few characters whose face looks
    like it could use just a LITTLE work.  Not because it looks rough, but
    because he’s just a little ugly and stiff looking from some angles.  You
    know how almost all the characters faces in PS2 TTT are an eyesore?
    Almost none of the VF4 characters suffer from that, but Jacky borders on
    it at times.  I’m probably making it worse than it is, and it’s just
    subjective.  His costumes are cool.  The straps on his 1P animate
    nicely, and it isn’t too shiny or fashioned out.  Just looks like a
    casual riding suit, sort of like a stripped down version of Yusaku from
    LB.  His 2P also looks good.  The leather looks pretty real, but
    sometimes it has kind of a white "glow" to it, like it’s always close to
    a fluorescent white light.  If they toned that down a touch, it’d give
    it that matte sheen of leather perfectly.  The only one of his intros I
    remember is where he spreads his arms out to the sides in front of him,
    palms open and up, moving a little at the hips B.L. style, and says
    "Let’s go, baby"or something like that.  One of his new victory poses is
    he steps back starting to turn away from the camera, then kicks way up
    right into the screen and says some shit.  Looks cool.  His hair looks
    really good and animates nicely.  The light catches the different

    Like Sarah, I only played Jacky a little.  Most have talked about his
    new double middle kick, his low, high kick, and how his double low kick
    has been slowed down, though it knocks down.  You can recover easily so
    as not to get stomped.  After the kickflip he wipes his nose and says
    "Come on, boy".  I’m not sure if he has the sway hook kick (b+k)
    anymore, couldn’t get it out.  He has some kind of auto reversal, I
    think it’s like b+P…  Switching stance is now PKG, and it allows you to
    do it really quickly.  His new b+P+K+G stance is cool looking.  He steps
    back about 2/3rds of the way across the screen (about like Heihachi’s
    shadow step, but straight back), and lifts his front leg.  You can then
    high or low kick.  Jeff goes into good detail about it in his report.
    I’m not sure what his dodge attack is.  His charge that I saw is done by
    d/f+P, P+K… it’s his quick hook to the body, then he kind of scoots
    forward while charging with his fists apart at his side, then hits.  I
    can’t remember what the hit looks like, I just remember the goofy
    charging animation.

    The Beat Knuckle looks good again, I think he lifts his back foot up a
    little like 2, no guard animation.  I didn’t see too much else new for
    Jacky yet.  He’s fun to use like Sarah.  The only new combo I did with
    him was Knee, (wall) b,b+P, d+K.  Style over damage, but I don’t
    remember getting it off outside Megamix before.  Should be strong as he
    ever was.


    He really is a drunk monkey now.  He looks, moves, and acts like a
    monkey.  The first time I tried him, I said "Whoaa!  He feels so
    WEAK!"  This exemplifies something about VF4: all the characters FEEL
    really different.  Fast characters move fast, power guys hit hard.  They
    really did give them their personality back, and it transmits right into
    the joystick in a really tangible way.  When I took control of Shun, he
    felt really sluggish and light at first, just the way he looks.  But
    when you start entering commands, he’s quick and agile.  It feels like
    he’s drunk until he attacks, then he’s focused and sharp.  It’s about
    the coolest thing I "felt" when playing 4.  I was totally expecting to
    get my ass kicked, but I got a few wins!

    Shun is one of the better looking characters.  He’s just really well
    realized all around.  You’ve probably all seen the shots of his 1P, it’s
    basically his classic yellow, green and red affair. His 2P is kind of a
    spin-off of his blue outfit in 3.  His top is dark blue and maroon, with
    light grey pants and high white socks with little brown kung-fu shoes.
    It looks kind of formal.  No hat, and his 2P sake bottle looks like
    white glass with a yellow marble pattern.  His face is almost hidden by
    his flowing beard and his eyes are sunken deep into his head.  He looks
    ancient, like he could drop dead any second.  When he drinks, he gets
    red quick as Yamcha said, hands included.  His voice isn’t as squawky as
    in 3, and the only intro I remember is him getting up slowly from

    Again, I’m gonna deviate from what Jeff felt about Shun.  I thought the
    chouwan seemed totally improved in range and power, and it always gave
    me a good float.  I haven’t played enough Shun to say for sure, but it
    felt really positive, to me.  The other thing I noticed right away is
    his pounce, it’s very quick and has big range now.  It reminds me of
    Pai’s pounce.  I can’t imagine missing with it.

    Doing d+P+K+G causes Shun to sit down, not drink.  I couldn’t get him to
    drink standing up.  And I think his sitting drink only gives 1 DP if I
    remember correctly (either that, or the P+G only gives 3).  He still has
    his K,P… strings from laying down.  When you fall down with d/b+K, (K),
    G, he doesn’t get up whenever you want, you have to wait a second now.
    The dodges are done with PKG, and you can go u/f,d/f/u/b, b or d/b.  I
    tried to do the JiJii Cyclone, but couldn’t time it right.  If you
    P+K,K, the kick looks a little different.  He sort of kicks forward and
    drops his leg out from under himself.   If  you do PKG after the K,
    he’ll go into the handstand.  His dodge attack is the old f+K+E, and his
    charge attack is a kind of elbow that winds up really slowly at full
    charge, and then comes up when it hits, turning.  The command is
    d/f+P+K, and like I said earlier, Yamcha and I dropped our jaws when we
    saw the full charge damage, over half.

    He has a new move with d/b+P+K that I don’t understand at all.  He sort
    of winds around backwards moving his hands around him.  It looks like it
    could hit several times, but I only saw the last little flip of his hand
    hit once.  Maybe it’s a stance.  I did a double cartwheel combo first
    try, and Noah did mule kick, P, d/f+P easily.  You can delay the sweep
    after his d/b+P way late.  Both he and the oppt. yell now while escaping
    his b+P+G throw.  Can’t remember much else right now.  Shun is pretty
    neat-o in 4.

    Okay guys, I’m gonna poop out a little here as I’ve been typing for days
    trying to get this done and I can’t take it anymore.  I just want to
    breeze over Lion, Aoi and Lei-Fei to get to Akira.  Sorry if this is a
    letdown to anyone, I’m exhausted.  If people want to hear about them or
    have questions let me know.
  2. akiralove

    akiralove Well-Known Member

    Hayward VF4 Final! B


    is gay… just kidding.  His nose is too wide.  Still talks like a candy
    ass.  His 2P costume is just wrong, you shouldn’t put a guy in tights
    and have him crouched over with his ass sticking out all day.  The 1P is
    basically Sion from the bouncer (on the char. Select screen, the colors
    are even the same).

    His f+P,P seems to have lost some range, as have his f,f+P and b,d/f+P
    (which knocks down). b,b+K,P+K is still a good combo starter…. Has some
    strange shuffling and dodging kick that’s really slow. Can’t remember
    what else.


    Best looking character in VF4, hands down.  She’s stunning.  Sounds like
    Samurai Spirits when she talks (old japanese).  The only other character
    I didn’t try.  There are no camera problems when doing her multiparts
    (fucking scrubs), and Yamcha thinks her new choke low throw can be
    chained, looks like it too.  New animations look great.  Can’t remember
    her dodge attack.   Ask Yamcha and Jeff, if there are any other Aoi
    players out there…


    Everyone else hit the nail on the head: we have a DOA character in VF4.
    Shades of Ein (speed, strength and range) and Helena (style).  Seems
    unfinished as a) his basic standing animation is… nothing basically,
    just breathing, looks way too stiff and b) he CANNOT move during his
    stances as far as I have seen.  It’s like you have to play chicken when
    he’s in stance.  Even his commands are DOAish (b+K+G,K,d+K).  Only saw 2
    front throws, side and back throws are unremarkable.  I’m really
    thinking he’s unfinished.  When moving, he doesn’t look bad, but when he
    isn’t, wood.

    Fighting him, seems like if you guard high and wait for his crazy strings to end, you can counter. I tried reversing against him a lot, but to no avail. It's hard to see what he's doing with those sleeves at times. In at least one of his stances he has a sort of auto reversal that knocks you down HARD.

    Whew… finally.


    Now I can have fun. Akira looks, sounds and plays great.  His new
    costume, 1P, is blue and has the flavor of his classic 1P, but more
    chinese, with embroidered flame-ish marks.  His white costume doesn’t
    really bother me anymore ( I had bitched about the long pants and
    "shoes").  His hair animates beautifully, and sits in layers that you
    can see in the light, swaying back and forth.  He’s darker in complexion
    than before.  His voice is deeper, sounds aged.  Adam, when you hear his
    "OSHAA!", you’ll shed a tear.  I know it’s in some clips, but you’ve
    gotta hear it in person, I couldn’t get over it.  I’ll leave the rest of
    his animation as a suprise, it’s all great.

    Like Jeff noted, the DE and SDE are back to VF2 status.  I couldn’t
    really test the exact recovery time of the SDE, but it definitely seems
    quicker.  Dashing in and throwing after a stagger with the DE is a little trickier, butyou can still do it.  Seems like the SDE still always knocks down.  Andthanks to the new rubbery dashes, even the DE has SDE type range if youdelay the P.  The Body Check also benefits from this, I felt like I could get into the run animation before I hit P+K, way across the
    screen.  Standing palms come out very quick and easy, almost automatic.
    Yoho’s got good range too, and a BIG float on counter.

    One of his new moves, the Fukko (b,d/f+P+K) is an open palm, overhand
    crush that moves forward and leaves both Akira and the oppt crouching,
    so you can buffer all the FC moves to come out as soon as he recovers.
    Fukko, shoulder…  Someone else said the command was D/F+P+K, but it
    isn’t, as he goes TO a crouch, not from a crouch.  It can hit a little
    in combos.  Looks nice.  Good enough damage.

    His dodge attack is the TenZanKou (b,f+P+K+E), and it’s really
    effective, I don’t think I missed once, just got reversed by Yamcha.  A
    ground punch seems guaranteed.  I didn’t see anyone PKG roll from it.
    You can do it quick after your move gets guarded as well.  Since you can
    dodge either way, you can control the direction. This move just works so well.

    The bodycheck gives HUGE damage at the right time. In case you missed it earlier, I managed to get appox. 80% of the lifebar with one major counter hit.

    His double palm seems much more useful to me. It's one of the moves I had really good results with all day. It pushes guarders away now, so you don't have to worry about counters too much, and it's range feels better. If the oppt. is waiting a little, it's a snap to CD forward and nail them with a DblPm as they start to do something; I did this so many times. It was my main move in long to mid range play (along with the b,f+P+K). On an average hit, damage is just a little better than in 3.

    The single palm is essentially the same so far, with a few exceptions. First, as I said before, it's really easy to do standing SglPms; looks like he doesn't crouch at all. Next, against crouchers.... aww yeah! That's right true believers, the special push away stun is BACK! The animation is a little different: instead of going down onto their ass, they sort of bend over holding their stomach and slide backwards kneeling. They go back really fast, and I'd say even a little further than in 2. The catch is that the shaking stick appears and they can recover, but Akira still has pretty good advantage, and I'm sure you can throw someone who isn't quick on rec> attack or who just holds guard. I can't wait to single palm someone along the edge of the ring then RBC them out... "we're giving them their personalities back" FUCK YEAH!

    The b,f+P standing palm seems a little better. It now gives the feet up/on the back hit animation, like Kage's u/f+K+G. Didn't try to combo off it, but I'm sure you can, since so many moves hit OTB now.

    The b/f+P+K, his charge attack, is very fun to fool around with, and quite versatile now. At fastest speed, looks like it comes out just a TOUCH slower than the b,f+P, but damage is decreased obviously, as is range (about the same as b/f+P, with a small increase due to his arms sticking out in front of him). Several people were using this in combo after the SE/SDE, but it doesn't give any noteworthy damage, and IMO it looks stupid. This move doesn't look good all quick. Slowed down on the other hand, it's grand. At maximum charge, it's about twice as slow as it was in 3, but if it hits, you'll either get big damage or a fat stagger. I actually never got a clean hit with it at full charge, but the stagger is nice. A throw is almost definately NOT guaranteed if they recover. Remember that this move recovers a little slow, unlike an elbow, so the oppt is recovering as Akira is as well. Still very useful, the stagger pushes way back (about a dash distance), and I'm sure we'll see lots of guessing games put on recovering oppts. When it hits, the oppt spins in the air to the side, and I doubt this hit can be PGK rolled from, but maybe. I think with some practice, this'll be a great okizeme tool: if timed right, oppts will be forced to take the stagger or the big hit. It's easy to hit people out of the charge, but I think this is part of the skill of using charge attacks, knowing when to release the buttons. If they see it coming, and are close, they'll try to hit you out of it. But if you can anticipate their counter, and release early enough to catch them as they start to move, boom... you'll score counter damage plus charge damage.

    PK seems a little slower, almost like the K isn't guaranteed, but probably is. Still a good counter tool in a pinch.

    d/f+P+K feels unchanged, aside from the fact that on counter, it gives a new animation where they fall forward onto their face. Didn't think to try to pop them back up with the shoulder. Perhaps it a LITTLE slower now.

    Shoulder Ram has changed slightly in the hit it gives. On normal hit, it doesn't pop them up quite as high as it used to, but it's of little consequence since all floats seem to last longer now. Shoulder, p, shoulder is totally easy. Hits OTB now. Still, got Pai over the wall with it, so...

    Akira has 2 low kicks now. The first, d+K, is totally new. It looks a little like his low rising kicks in VF3. He's crouching, maybe even one hand on the ground, and does a reaching kick. Foot seems to come up a little higher than his old rising kicks. Back to back, he switches legs. Now the cool thing is this move is cancellable. When canceling it, it brings him into a crouch, and he moves forward a good bit. The kick/cancel animation is kind of long and looks cool, much longer than a standing K,G. Now if you do d+K, G, d+K, G, d+K, G... he does this little duck walk that never leaves crouching, and moves forward pretty quick. It looks like Aoi's D/B... in VF3, only going forward and quicker. I'm not sure if this will have ant real use (cpu jeffry iron clawed me right out of it), but I think it might. You could avoid high throws and miss high attacks/guard low attacks and move forward all at once with one d+K, G. If this goes low enough to go under high rising kicks, or even slip under from a slight distance, it'll be pretty useful I think. Of course, it can be done from standing or a crouch. I'm really excited to explore this. Can't believe I found a special step on the first day!

    His other low kick, d+K+G, looks like his VF2 low kick. He doesn't move forward, and just kicks his hind leg out forward, low and quick, then brings it back. Doesn't switch stance on the 2nd one, just stays in the same place. Range is really short, but looks like you can use it OTB in tight spots. To be honest, I think this might be the beginning of a canned combo (like Gen Fu's d/b+K, f+P), it seems so unsubstantial by itself. I tried to do something next, but couldn't.

    Once when I looked away for a moment to talk to someone as I was playing the CPU, I had just missed the pull in RBC (more on that in a moment), and I heard a strange sound. When I looked back, I cought a glimple of Akira standing close to the oppt with his hands spread apart vertically, palms open, bent over a little. Looked like the Art of Fighting Ryo super fireball (again). The noise sounded like you were ripping fabric quickly. I'm not sure what the hell this was, but I never saw it again. I did hear the sound again, next time Aoi was behind the oppt doing something and it came out. Hmmmm...

    The knee seems about the same; knee, low P, DblPm is easy once again. Tried doing it after the ST and buffering a kick, but I think I botched the input up.

    The jumping kicks also seem about the same. The SJK doesn't give quite as high a float after the ST as in 3. Using the DJK for okizeme against low riseing attacks works even better than in 3! (sorry Yamcha, I won't do it anymore) If you go over with the first hit and nail with the second, you'll get a good chunk of damage, about 15-20% of the bar. Ofter though, I managed to nail both hits, for about 25-30% damage. This is interesting because since there are no more forward rolls, I was getting both hits against a low riser if timed right, not off a roll. The recovery is slower way down on the DJK, so there's no hope of a combo that I can see.

    The break guards are still there, but the range seems decreased. I got a SJK after the f+P+G, gave an alright float, but again nowhere near 3.

    The d/f+P+G seems the same.  You can still tag on a d/f+P every time.
    Tried to get the Ura, but I’m not that comfortable with movement yet.
    You can bodycheck right over the oppt, but it leaves you back exposed
    (CPU likes to do it).  Similar damage to 3.  Wall throw still exists,
    good damage.

    The b,f+P+G animates a little differently.  The oppt. seems to flop
    around a little right as Akira releases them, not going as high as
    before.  The distance is about the same, but height is shorter.  I think
    it’s to prevent easy ringing out over the short walls.  Damage seems the
    same.  I hope they make it look a little better, as the oppt’s animation
    is kinda dorky and awkward.

    RBC I'm not quite sure about yet in terms of what (if anything) is guaranteed. Looks better than in 3, though. I didn't use it too much in Hayward.

    The SE I did play around with a bit. I figured since E wasn't as available, I could hit people easier, VF2 style. DblPm still seems guaranteed. Other than that, I tried deep bodychecks with varying degrees of success. I could hit the CPU pretty nicely, and against people I got some hits, and a few dash-aways. I didn't really have the timing just right (too slow), but it gave good damage when it hit, about 30%. I wanna try the SglPm and SDE.

    The ST is strange to me because of a slightly longer animation. It also feels like the oppt. is pushed a little further away.

    The Shin Iha (d/b,f+P+G) was been powered up nicely. Seems like if you want to ring out, this gives better distance now than the b,f+P+G, and better damage. It makes sense since the command is a little more demanding. The animation looks really nice now.

    Okay, the JunShinHonKou (f,b+P+G) or Pull In Throw. Here's where a good portion of Akira's new stuff I found went down. First off, as you can see on the VF4 site, he has a simple canned combo, P+K, called Shin Iha as well. While the hit looks the same, the result is different. You get the "on your ass" slide like after a SglPm to a croucher! Nice, Eh? Now, the animation to the PIT is slowed down some, I'd say that if you include the "reach" animation all throws have, the time from start to finish, when he lets go of their hands, is about 60% longer than in VF3. The timing of his Shin Iha off the PIT is pretty specific: it has to be done before he lets go, about 2/3rds of the way between when he grabs them and when he lets go. Too early won't work either. BTW, like the other version of this special hit animation, this gives nice push distance.

    Next, with similar timing, Akira can now use the PIT to slip behind the oppt. At first, I couldn't figure out the command, as it seemed irratic. Then I started trying up and down, and got better but still mixed results. I started to think I had to coordinate my direction (up or down) with the oppt's back side. But it didn't make sense because between Akira's hands getting in the way, and the oppt actually switching stance during the throw, it was too hard to tell which was the back side. Then I started holding down, starting after he grabs them, pretty early (about 1/3 through), and got a good, consistent slip behind. Seems like it works just as well with up. When you do it, he pulls them in and then slips behind VERY quickly while they're still crouched. Now, cool thing is if you tap P+K as he moves behind, he'll hit his back to their's, giving you an RBC. Here again I'm not sure about followups. I tried to tag on the DblPm after the RBC to see if the 2/3 SPOD would come out, but it didn't. Tried bodychecking, too, but the CPU avoided it by TTpunching me. This sequence is very quick and disorienting... nice.

    Aside from that stuff, he can do a few things he couldn't before. Some have mentioned the b,f+P+K, but I didn't try it. Got the bodycheck, but it seems easier to recover from, given the longer PIT animation. On the plus side, he can now do the shoulder ram from the PIT. I'm pretty sure it's just d,f+P+K, as it comes out instantly. Here again you can recover, but if you don't it's deadly. I did PIT, shoulder, P, yoho, DLC to Pai, and while onlt the 1st hit of the DLC connected, I'm sure if I was close to the wall, I'd have gotten it. Overall, the PIT is very versatile, and one of his staples now I'd imagine.

    Reversals feel the same to me, even though some people have said it requires more specific timing.

    The DLC has sort of see-sawed for VF4, trading damage for ease of use. First off, it can be done ANY time now, regardless of whether or not the first hit connects. And it feels SO easy to do now. At first, I thought the command might have changed, but I tried just using b,f+P+K and it didn't work. The window for doing it is larger, and slower. In fact, if I missed it was usually due to putting in the elbow too fast! If you go slow, you should NEVER miss it now. People who know me know I don't have great consistency with the DLC, but it went up about 300% in VF4, both directions. Feels like it's on rails or something. Funny thing is, now that you can just put it in, regardless of the kick, I found myself just whiffing all three hits a lot, due to incorrect timing with the floating oppt. It's strange. The trade off is that damage is down about 40%. It's almost just for show now. Feels like the distance it pushed the oppt is down a little as well. Still good though, decent damage and push. Just not the killer it was in 3.

    The SPoD, on the other hand is pumped up. The command changed to P+G for the 2nd hit, other than that command's the same, got the 3rd hit rolling to back and forward. The speed of the Boken (P+K+G) feels sped up slightly over 3, somewhere between 2 and 3. The result is seemingly teh need to put the RBC in quicker, but it could be just that I wasn't used to hitting P+G yet, so it felt a little awkward. Payoff is bigger damage, about 55-60% without recovery. Looks and sounds great.

    Akira has been powered up seems to me, really fun to play now. I'm very happy, and sleepy.

    I never thought I wouldn't want to play VF3, but I haven't touched it since 4. I'd like to play, but 4 is filling my mind after my big day. Some people will say that 3 was the apex of the series, the most artful, most complex, cleanest version. But I'm really excited to see where 4 takes us. I'll be back in a month or so with reports after my trip to Japan. Can't wait to try out VF.net. That's my only letdown with 4 in the US. That would have ruled... cheap bastards. Hope you enjoyed this. Got an offer from a PS2 site to re-edit this and put it up there, but I'm gonna have to say "fuck them other niggas, 'cause I'm down for my niggas...." For once it feels good to be a VF junky in the sea of bullshit that has become the US gaming scene. It's our chance to shine again for a moment. I'm sure we're all ready. Yu Suzuki said that he's excited to see the new stars of the VF world that will appear for part 4... Who's ready?!?!?!!!!


    fuck them other niggas!
  3. Yamcha

    Yamcha Well-Known Member

    Re: Hayward VF4 Final! B

    Beautiful man...you deserve an ovation for typing all this out (hell I don't even remember all that stuff I said till now). You should get this published, just not at a PS2 site =).
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Re: Hayward VF4 Final! B

    Wow amazing amount of depth here!!! Spotlite this is an amazing job!!!

    I'm gearing up to play VF4, I can't wait!

    Seems like lots of improvements to the graphics!

  5. Hayai_JiJi

    Hayai_JiJi Well-Known Member

    I have several questions about Shun
    1. Can he drink with his back turned yet?
    2. Have their been any changes to his DP requirements ie does he have to have more than six DP's to do all the drunken sweeps etc?

    I know you probally did not play enough Shun to see these things but if you did spread the word. Thanks in advance.

    Under the surface of the most jaded cynic lies a dissappointed idealist- George Carlin
  6. ghostdog

    ghostdog Well-Known Member

    Re: Hayward VF4 Final! B

    Awesome report, Spotlite.
    Especially the section on Akira. I wish you would have played more Aoi, but I'm not complaining.

    It's a very nice report, and it only makes me want to play more. Even if I have to go out of town to do so. Thanx

    -<font color=white>Ghost</font color=white><font color=blue>DOG</font color=blue>
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Re: Hayward VF4 Final! B

    Yup, great report man, thanks a lot from Europe.......

    no post on a PS2 site hehehe..... death to the mainstream market which destroyed the arcade-scene(expensive hardware, genere -plurality,toplan,Irem,data East,SNK......snifff.....)
    death to multi capital enterprises who don't care about the gamer(4mB ram, you should see the ugly Pal 50 HZ ports from sony for Europe......)

    I'm happy that the VF4 characters now feel even more diffrent...

    jacky's beat knuckle, if guarded won't slow you down......

    i thinck jackys vf4 beat knuckle was already implemented in shenmue(ryo).......

    nice,nice job

    must be published on other sites, show them the true beauty of knowing vf.......
  8. adamYUKI

    adamYUKI Well-Known Member

    Re: Hayward VF4 Final! B

    Hmm...Lets see....ummm...what was i gonna say? Oh yeah...

    <font color=white>YOU THE MUTHA FUKKIN MAN DAWG!!!</font color=white>

    "fuck them other niggas!"

    Hahahaha...that shit was buttuz! Seriosly tho, your report was superb.

  9. 3of19

    3of19 Well-Known Member


    Didn't Suzuki-san say something about that he wanted VF.net to be implemented outside Japan as well?
    Sure we don't have those funky I-mode cellulars here, but the other stuff couls still be implemented.
    When I asked the Danish distributor about the datacards, he said that they didn't know whether they'd got those as well, but he didn't dismiss it right away either.
  10. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Brian...that report of yours is just absolutely brilliant.

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