Hell hath frozen over my friends

Umm, have you seen some high level SF3-3 play?
That game kicks ass! If you have the possibility, download a couple of replays for SF3-3 DC and see for yourself that this game is FAR from simple.

 

I've yet to see a 2D fighter as deep as Tekken let alone VF/SC. I don't think 2D fighters in and of themselves are simple but I'm gonna compare them to 3D every time.
Combos might need effort/concentration/timing/research, but I don't care at all for combos or even any manual dexterity in a fighter. Strategy is what goes into every 1st hit and there sure is more to it in 3D than 2D (I'm considering CvS2 which is *the* head 2D fighter unless I'm mistaken). No doubt the "execution" of 3rd strike isn't simple; I'm looking at the big picture

 

That is if T4 wasn't brutally broken...

 

thats simply because there isent a 2-D fighter as deep as a 3-D fighter out there.

 

"I'm considering CvS2 which is *the* head 2D fighter unless I'm mistaken"

Well, that's where, imho, you ARE mistaken. Despite being crammed with combos, characters and special moves, I think this game is mostly a flashy mess.

Get into SF3, download and watch some exhibition movies and matches from <a target="_blank" href=http://www.shoryuken.com>Shoryuken</a>, and then you'll begin to see what I mean.

I think this, what should I call it, racism against 2D fighters has to do with people not thinking they're advanced enough. Sure enough, they contain sprites instead of 3D models, and you move on a 2D plane, but the gameplay does not end there.

Even 3D fighters were 2D in execution at first. VF1 and Tekken were both as simple as SF2 in regard to '3D thinking'. Only Toshinden (oh my) had actual 3D movement, and look at what that achieved with the game.

Now, I take SF3 as an example, simply because it's IMO the best 2D fighter ever. You have the recovery time, the throw escapes, the parries, the air juggles/floats. (there's more, but I'm not going into it now) Simply put, there's more to SF3 in ways than it was to the first 3D fighters.

3D doesn't automatically make a game advanced.
2D doesn't automatically make a game simple.

Oh my this is off topic /versus/images/icons/blush.gif

Usually the ones who have these prejudices about 2D fighters are the ones who do not play them thoroughly. Do, and come back.

 

Bravo Mirkan,

you wrote what I would have /versus/images/icons/smile.gif
SF3-3 IS deep. See it on high level and see the light /versus/images/icons/laugh.gif

 

VF1 and Tekken might not have had 3D movement but they were deeper than SF2, back then SF didn't even offer overheads, what mind games there were were very simple. I thought Toshinden was the one with the 2D engine...could you sidestep? I barely played it but I know it used 2d hit-levels.
Air juggles come under combo-research. The throw breaking doesn't add much, as long as you're crouching you don't risk whiffing a break. If you boil parries down to counters, 2D has had them for the longest time (eg Geese/Kasumi in kof96); no news to me. And SF3 is partial to unintentional parries.

 

"VF1 and Tekken might not have had 3D movement but they were deeper than SF2"

I didn't compare T1 and VF1 to SF2, you did.

"I thought Toshinden was the one with the 2D engine...could you sidestep?"

You sure could.

"The throw breaking doesn't add much, as long as you're crouching you don't risk whiffing a break."

You can't crouch all the time, and there's a throw game in SF3, very much so. Throws are excellent to set up combos with Dudley (me plays =) and if it wasn't for the throw escapes, it would've been dead easy.

"If you boil parries down to counters, 2D has had them for the longest time"

The debate was 2D vs 3D, so I take that as a good thing, thank you.

"And SF3 is partial to unintentional parries."

I agree, but there's still a huge difference between the skilled player and the lucky one.

 

Agreed, Samurai Shodown should of been on the list.
And what, no Bushido Blade?