Help getting up....

Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by Guest, Sep 25, 2001.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I was playing on VF4 last night, I managed to win a couple of matches vs. someone playing Jacky. Then the person came back and challenged again, he started really pressuring me with elbows and kicks when I was getting up. This put me off alot and I ended up losing the match cause I couldn't get back into it after I got knocked over. Just wandering what is a good tactic to use in this situation when you want to get up, get away and regroup or at least get back to standing safely. I tried using the P+K+G and tech roles but I had trouble getting far enough away with those moves. Maybe I'm being to defensive? I looked at the GLC's FAQ and on gamefaqs too but couldn't really find anything to help me out (in VF3 or 4).

    Thanks, hope you can help me out. Sorry for being inspecific but I'm not sure of exact terms. Oh...I was playing as Kage.
     
  2. Adio

    Adio Well-Known Member

    If use Kage then the answer is right before you. Just use his forward: HCF and backward: HCB rolls to either attack or flee. Pressing P+G+K and up or down will make you TR to either side. You can't TR backwards. When you're on the ground Tap G continually with the direction you wish to go. Keep tapping and pushing the direction to increase your movement.

    Adio.
     
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Thanks, I understand about the TR and the HCB/F rolls but maybe you are right and I should use them more. I think on reflection my problem was I was using the rising attacks too much and he was attacking me while my move was beginning. I think if I play some more tonight I will try to have some more variety.
     
  4. AlexMD

    AlexMD Well-Known Member Content Manager Lei

    "Maybe I'm being to defensive? "

    I think so /versus/images/icons/laugh.gif, I'm assuming you mean once you are up the other player has the initiative and is constantly knocking you down with a mix of throws and mid level attacks?.

    Try not to look at it as being at a disadvantage, just block if you expect an elbow or other mid attack and flipkick or kick cancel then throw if you expect a throw.

    If your opponent tries to keep attacking after the elbow is blocked obviously you can do some serious damage with an interrupt.

    Looking into option select would be a good move as well since it will cover more bases and decrease your chance of getting continually knocked down.

    I used to be very nervous when I was within throw range of the opponent, so I'd hold off using moves like Akira's dashing elbow because I was afraid of getting thrown (since you recover so close to your opponent), just realize there is a way around anything your opponent can throw at you.

    Sorry if this was too simplistic but your post doesn't really give me a clear idea of what level you're at /versus/images/icons/smile.gif
     
  5. Adio

    Adio Well-Known Member

    When I'm In the Arcade I like to take my time. If you are continually beaten. Stop playing for a bit and look at your style. When I say style I don't mean pattern. routines and favorite moves are fine off course, just as long as you know the risks of using them. Trial and error mate.

    Adio.
     
  6. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Are you saying your rising kicks were interrupted by Jacky's elbows and kicks? You sure?
     
  7. Madin

    Madin Well-Known Member

    today i was playing the cpu and was against pai, although this happend very quickly, i'm pretty sure that i did a late rising attack, and pai reversed it, attack reversed it! ( not the low spinning sweep ) once again i'll check tommorow. i hope i'm wrong.
     
  8. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    I'm not 100% sure what kinds of rising attacks can be reversed, but yes, I'm sure at least some of them can be (high, Akira type ones).

    Still though, I don't think rising attacks can be interrupted, at least in regular play. They may be, once in a while, but it's usually some freak, accidental timing, unless someone has rising attacks like Taka.
     
  9. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    What options are you using? Do you tend to abuse the same option?

    Try to look at the situations each time they happen and think about what happened... If you QR'd (quickrise or quickroll), I think you get stuck in certain positions, thus vulnerable to either a mid or a low attack depending on the QR you used. If you chose not to use a QR, are you always doing a rise attack of some sort? That should not be your only option, but in cases of rise attacks, are you doing the high rise attack or low rise attack all the time? Is your opponent just using 3d movement to circumvent your rising attacks?

    As far as I know... You have many options and you will want to learn the benefits of each, and hopefully understand your opponent enough to guess what they're guessing you are going to do (or in some cases, what they always do to try to handle the okizeme game).

    I might be wrong, but the options as I understand them are:

    Quick Rise- P+K+G (which I think leaves you standing for a moment--vulnerable to low attacks and throws I think)

    Quick Roll- (u or d)+P+K+G (which I think leaves you crouching for a moment-if so then vulnerable to mid attacks)

    Normal Rise- either wait or just keep pressing P (as far as I know, you can defend just about anything coming at you at this point--but I haven't played VF4 ver. B).

    Back Roll- keep pressing b (don't know how VF4 handles back rolls, but the test version didn't seem all that different from VF3 anyways--I think there's a vulnerability frame set).

    Side Roll- keep hitting G and u or d (I'm guessing it's similar to standing or back roll, but you have a moment of vulnerability--you can also followup with mid or low rising attack).

    Middle rise attacks- K (if rising attacks still have priority, I'm sure they do, then this should do the trick against any attack that tries to challenge the leg. Don't get your hopes high, there are many ways to handle the rising attack, such as sidestep, very low attacks, ranged low attacks, 3d attacks, etc...).

    Low rise attacks- d+K ( generally beats a lot of the straight-forward attacks coming at you as you rise. Very weak against hopping attacks or hop setups, like the other mid rising kick, there are ways to circumvent the attack by sidestep or 3d movement).

    The moral of the story is... you have many defensive options while getting up, but your opponent can be deadly if they properly guess or know what option you will use. Try mixing them up. The same trick will not always work, nor the same sequence. Randomness isn't really the key, the key is to know or observe the situation, know your opponent, and of course know yourself. In some cases, if you've been on the ground for a bit of time and your opponent comes at you with some strange attack, kick the bastard. It just takes a bit of practice and experience... you can also look for visual cues.

    In any case, it's all a guessing game. Apply a good ol' saying to your opponent: "When you think you're fucking them, they're fucking you." Make your opponent realize this/versus/images/icons/tongue.gif

    -Chanchai
     
  10. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    I just realized something--are you rolling forward all the time? That's pretty much the only time that you can get hit on the ground that's not a OTB combo, at least in 3.
     
  11. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    I think forward rolls are gone in VF4. I could be wrong.
     
  12. Adio

    Adio Well-Known Member

    I haven't tried it. But then again I haven't heard of it being cut. I don't see why AM2 would anyway.

    Adio.
     
  13. ShinJin

    ShinJin Well-Known Member

    yeah, no more rolling forwords in VF4

    i only win from your mistakes, not my skill
     
  14. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    yah, I liked forward rolling, it's strange to think of it as cut, that doesn't fit into the theme of VF4. It did add another interesting mini game to the game. It was funny to see someone do a big move to try to stop a roll and you just rose with a kick and didn't roll instead.


    /versus/images/icons/mad.gif<font color=red>~~~ Don't make me rape you with a sharp stick ~~~/versus/images/icons/mad.gif<font color=red>
     
  15. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    I don't know, I've grown a habit of just hitting my opponent whenever I see a forward roll in VF3. It wasn't like I was expecting it, but since I tend to focus on reaction as my course in okizeme, if I see a forward roll at all, the riser is gonna get hit.

    BTW, wasn't the forward roll also excluded in VF2 (maybe VF1 as well)?

    -Chanchai
     
  16. feixaq

    feixaq Well-Known Member

    Yes, VF1/2/4 have no forward roll, only VF3.


    [​IMG]
     
  17. akiralove

    akiralove Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    JTGC
    IMO, the best option at the current level of VF4 play (beginning) is to Ukemi (roll) up or down, period.

    Here's why:

    since we've all just started playing, we should be practicing this, since it's trickier against some falls, and can reduce damage against many moves (in fact, in Ver. A if you Ukemi'd from Jeff's b+P+G, no damage... Ver. B slowly does damage while he holds you up; so you can actually get KO'd while he holds you over his head... kinda lame).

    If you haven't seen it yet, you'll soon see the insane OTB combos that happen if you don't get up, like Pai doing d+K, d+K, d+KK OTb. Ukemi is the only way to avoid this.

    In the case of certain long recovery moves like Jacky's Kickflip and Kage's f,f+P+K+G you actually have a good chance of punishing them after you get hit with an up or down roll.

    After a roll, you aren't necessarily at a disadvantage at all. If you learn to roll then start applying pressure with different attacks and throws, you can turn the tables nicely. For example, if you're using Lau, you can buffer his from crouch heelkick into the end of teh roll, which is pretty nice given it's high priority and good damage. This will nail anyone trying to pressure a roller. After eating that a few times, your oppt will most likely guard (which gives you a throw opp) or just back off, which gives you a risk free rise.

    It's a good way to keep yourself away from the edge of the ring

    you can avoid down attacks, and HUGELY punish people who try them and whiff

    etc...

    there are a few disadvantages, like the fact that if you roll and just sit there, you're open to low throws. This can be avoided by holding up at the end, which gets you to free step into the screen, avoiding the throw. Also since you're considered a croucher, some standing attacks can be tricky to get out.

    in addition, since you can't guard, you'll briefly be open to fast opponents, but it always felt basically even to me.

    It's not this simple of course, and the other kinds of rising also have good advantages, but for the moment I'd recommend rolling Ukemi.

    on another note, I know for sure that Akira's high and low rising attacks are reversable, and I heard Dural's are too; never got it to work against spin kick type RA's though. Good chance it's possible none the less.

    In VF4 it seemed like high rising attacks were way more open to interrupts than in VF3tb. I feel like I nailed people many times. I remember getting the shoulder ram, and once I bodychecked right through Pai's high riser for about half the bar. Remember how youu could shoulder high risers with proper timing in VF3OB? It's like that. Also, one of the fisrt things I noticed when trying to use the DJK okizeme against low rising kicks, is that with correct timing BOTH kicks will hit.

    Spotlite
     
  18. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Wow, thanks for all the help ^_^! Much appreciated.
     
  19. MADrox

    MADrox Well-Known Member

    curious

    Where were you playing vf4 at????

    __-___---____
     

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