Help with overall gameplay improvement needed

Discussion in 'Wolf' started by Unicorn, Jun 28, 2012.

  1. Unicorn

    Unicorn Well-Known Masher Content Manager Wolf Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    unicorn_cz
    XBL:
    unicorn cz
    Yes, I know nothing is guaranteed, but against many people, something works. That is why I put here the list of "what works at what frames".
    If they know how to unstagger, then you have "free" mixup of throw (catchthrow) / some mid (3K+G usually for me)
     
  2. Unicorn

    Unicorn Well-Known Masher Content Manager Wolf Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    unicorn_cz
    XBL:
    unicorn cz
    Ok, yesterday I spend few hour in the Dojo with Wolf; partially practicing some basic game stuff, partially being in the lab.

    The stuff I found is pretty random, and I will put it here as "wall of text" - I hope you will find something useful here [​IMG]

    STAGGERS
    best options to go for depending on the speed your opponent can mash out of staggers
    * [4][6][P][+][K] (20f) - the MC juggles are possible to connect here = up to Wolf, you can get 123 ([4][6][P][+][K] > [P] > [9][P][+][K] > [​IMG][3][6][P] > [6][6][6][K][+][G]) - 126 dmg out of it
    * [6][K] (17f) = 94-106 dmg (94 from basic [2][P] > [​IMG][3][6][P] > [4][6][P] juggle)
    * [6][P] (16f) = head crumple => you can use any 6K juggle here = 87-97 dmg (87 from basic juggle)
    * [6][2][4][P][P] (14f) - 65 dmg (this one is guaranteed from P+K max charge)
    damage is calculated for [6][K][+][G] NH

    ATTACK TO THROW
    [4][P][+][K] MC
    * Burning Hammer (136 dmg) or imperfect Giant Swing (91 dmg) are guaranteed
    * no other throws will connect for unknown reason
    * it looks like you can not connect perfect GS as well..?

    CATCH THROWS FOLLOWS
    Catch [4][P][+][G]
    * it turned out [6][P][+][K] can actually be blocked!!!
    * best (guaranteed) options seems to be
    ** [6][P][P][+][K] (39 + oki)
    ** [4][6][P] (36 + nice ringout options)
    ** [4][K][+][G] (hitthrow, but this one unreliable in case they will try turn around with crouch dash) (87/82/67/17 dmg)

    Change [P][+][G]
    * [3][K][+][G] juggle really is guaranteed here, just finish it with [6][P][P] instead of [6][2][4][P][P] against anyonee (84 dmg)
    * [3][K] => backhit => +10 situation => any throw except Burning Hammer is guaranteed (68-103 dmg) !!!
    ** big fun included [​IMG]

    OVERALL STUFF
    [3][P][+][K]
    I tough this move is awesome, being damn safe on guard (-4), giving decent advantage on hit (+8) and BIG on MC (+12). Turned out it is not completely true... You push your opponent damn far away, and it looks like no true nitaku can be applied at the resulting distance (at least I did not find any useful way how to apply it).
    It still is awesome "safe" move. I tend to use it especially as "safe" oki - mainly useful if I am low on health and do not wish to risk toe-to-toe confrontations - because it push back away decently even on guard.
    Where I am using it now mainly is near walls. [3][P][+][K] is, thanks to above mentioned properties, arguably the best way how to start wall combo, because it creates wall stagger.

    And that is all for today; hope you will find anything useful here and expect more in the near future! [​IMG]
     
  3. Ash_Kaiser

    Ash_Kaiser Marly you no good jabroni I make you humble... Bronze Supporter

    I'm guessing you mean [4][P]+[K]? [6][P]+[K] is a launcher.
     
  4. Unicorn

    Unicorn Well-Known Masher Content Manager Wolf Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    unicorn_cz
    XBL:
    unicorn cz
    You are completely correct, thx for pointing out this typo [​IMG] I missed it somehow
     
  5. Dennis0201

    Dennis0201 Well-Known Member

    BH is not guaranteed due to the space, but 4P combo is.


    There is no guarantee after stagger, and 46P+K is the maximum damage to deal with those who don't recover. However, it's too risky -15 on block.
    After 2_3P stagger, even screwhook could be missed because of space, and the damage isn't good enough. Another 2_3P(uppercut) can make a easy combo over 100dmg, which is 2_3P(CH) > 2_3P > 6_P > 1P+K > 63214PP. It works generally but against heavy characters the 1P+K bound won't connect. And more important, it's only -4 on block. Consider all contents above, you can mostly buffer 33 all the time after 2_3P because you either to do fuzzy guard or prepare for the CH combos. To those who can recover fast enough, F5 is a good choice because no one would like to be fucked up by BH.

    This one sounds very cool! Can't wait to test it!
     
  6. Unicorn

    Unicorn Well-Known Masher Content Manager Wolf Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    unicorn_cz
    XBL:
    unicorn cz
    4P is guaranteed, that is basic combo stuff. But... BH also connects, just try it - it really works for some reason. Only for BH/imperfect GS. Dunno why. I was sure it will whiff, but it is not.
    It is good mainly for fun (many players will expect 6 throw... all after you pull it out once [​IMG] ), but here and there, it is good joke [​IMG]

     
  7. Dennis0201

    Dennis0201 Well-Known Member

    Guarantee means you can apply 100% no question, however, BH is NOT guaranteed after 4P+K CH, end of story [​IMG]

    2_3P like you said it might whiff as well, and that's why 33 buffer is a key here. 33 can give Wolf a little bit close range rather than screw hook.
     
  8. Unicorn

    Unicorn Well-Known Masher Content Manager Wolf Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    unicorn_cz
    XBL:
    unicorn cz
    [​IMG]
    Sir yes sir!
     
  9. Dennis0201

    Dennis0201 Well-Known Member

    First, against the wall this setup is no use. Second, pick up Wolf/Jeffry to try again, then you will realize what's the meaning of guarantee.
     
  10. Unicorn

    Unicorn Well-Known Masher Content Manager Wolf Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    unicorn_cz
    XBL:
    unicorn cz
    I was not sarcastic; I just try to say I get your point [​IMG]
     
  11. Dennis0201

    Dennis0201 Well-Known Member

    4P+K CH belongs to a special case with +16, and it's weird against some characters BH can't reach far enough. I'm pretty sure you can't apply this setup with Wolf and Jeffry, and honestly I didn't test with all casts.
     
  12. Unicorn

    Unicorn Well-Known Masher Content Manager Wolf Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    unicorn_cz
    XBL:
    unicorn cz
    Yup, did not realize it earlier, but it looks like this works only on some characters, while on other, it whiffs...
    Character specific useless crap! [​IMG]
     
  13. Ash_Kaiser

    Ash_Kaiser Marly you no good jabroni I make you humble... Bronze Supporter

    All part of the depth, and besides, Wolf and Jeff take more damage from other things.
     
  14. Unicorn

    Unicorn Well-Known Masher Content Manager Wolf Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    unicorn_cz
    XBL:
    unicorn cz
    Few new thing I find out. Some more uselses that others [​IMG]

    More guaranteed-throw-situations crap! [​IMG]
    * [K][+][G] MC - sidethrow (inputed as [6][P][+][G] ) is guarandteed! (87 dmg)
    * [3][P] (MC) against sideturned opponent = sidethrow (inputed as [6][P][+][G] guaranteed!
    * [3][P][+][K] (MC) against sideturned opponent = sidethrow (inputed as [4][2][6][P][+][G] ) guarandteed! (74 dmg)
    ** this 2 actually can be usefull here and there
    * [K][+][G] (NH only!!!) against sideturned opponent = backthrow made as [4][2][6][P][+][G] guaranteed (works only on very close distance)
    ** totally useless crap; but if you make it work, it feels hilarious [​IMG]

    [4][K] - I know most of you already knows this, but if you hit this against sideturned opponent, it gives crumple
    * [9][P][+][K] > [P] > [1][P][+][K] > [6][2][4][P][P] works against all except Taka

    [6][K]: MC
    * [2][P] > [​IMG][3][6][P] [6][6][4][6][P][+][K] is guaranteed for all chars except Taka
    ** in compare to [4][6][P] finish, it gives you 80 dmg (instead of 76) and significantly better okizeme. On other hand, the timing is tight as baby's ass [​IMG]

    [9][P][+][K]
    * add another [9][P][+][K] for guarantted "juggle" of 36 dmg
    ** it is so stupid it actually is hilarious
    ** use this as finisher of the round and add another 9P+K after that... 9P+K givers super reply, co you force your opponent to watch this stupid jump 5 times in a row! BUM! BUMBUMBUM! BUM! Already made few people raging a bit with this shit, actually [​IMG]

    Wall stagger into juggle
    There are many options, but from my experience, most reliable is this general juggle:
    !Stagger > !wall > [9][P][+][K] > [K][K] > [4][K][+][G][K] > [​IMG][3][6][P]
    * in compare with the strongest juggle, you sacrifice 6 damage (because you throw out [​IMG][3][P] ), but get more reliable juggle. I found that WITH this move, the juggle tends to fail occasionally at certain distances and/or angles
    * that last [​IMG][3][6][P] is not guaranteed against heavyweights
    * wall! [9][P][+][K] > [​IMG][3][P] > [K][K] [6][2][4][P][P] (119) works against Jeffry only

    And this is all for today. Nothing special, mostly some funny things. Still worth to know, hopefully [​IMG]
    And maybe you will even find something usefull here [​IMG]
     
  15. Mister

    Mister Well-Known Member Content Manager Wolf

    thanks for the post unicorn. About wall combos i found this taka specific combo:

    Wall! [P] > [9][P]+[K] > [K],[K] > [4][K]+[G],[K]

    no chance to put the [​IMG][3][6][P] as finisher

    If anyone finds something better please post here.
     
  16. EmX

    EmX Well-Known Member

    Wall splats seem to get [​IMG][3][P] -> [9][P]+[K] -> [K][K] -> [4][K]+[G][K]. I'm sure there are some other ones.

    Off sideturned mixup opportunities I'm a little lost with Wolf. [4][K] is what you look for CH with, but what are the other solid options?

    I've noticed [K]+[G] is +6 on block vs. a sideturned opponent, but it's also slow and high. Catch throw might be a bit tighter but still duckable. It seems like a lot of characters are more effective with the opponent in a sideturned state, but with Wolf it's a bit more limited since he has no sweep or quick mid circulars aside from screw. Call it simple-minded, but the option I always like to have with Wolf is a normal throw. In sideturn as long as the opponent knows what side they are on, side throws are worthless [​IMG]

    Oh, and what all does RAW sabaki? I thought it was linear high and mid punches and kicks, but it seems to have trouble against high damage/knockdown-causing ones? 'tis odd
     
  17. Unicorn

    Unicorn Well-Known Masher Content Manager Wolf Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    unicorn_cz
    XBL:
    unicorn cz
    Great info, thx [​IMG]
    9p+k 2_3p kk 4k+gk 2_36P is the best (most damaging) one I know, followed by 9p+k 2_3p 66k+g 4k+gk 2_36p (1 less damage, bit more style); but as i posted easlier - due to 2_3P, the following KK whiffs at certain distances/angles. This is why I start dropping 2_3P; it is 6 less dmage, but nearly 100 % reliability.
    Newer hears about this "reversed" juggle (2_3P before 9P+K) - will go to test it ASAP [​IMG] Thx for idea!
    [6][6][P][+][G]; [9][P][+][G] as throws and [4][K]; [6][P]; [3][P]; and [6][K] basically; to create standard nitaku situation.
    Or, if you know your opponent does not go for abare and just hold [G] with proper throw escape, you can try [P][+][K] max charge and [6][2][K] to make him think again
    The problem is - it is NOT reversal. Wolf EATS the attack as usual and THEN go for "catch"
    If the hit knocks you down, it knocks you down. If it staggers you, it staggers you. If it is part of the string and next hit connects before Wolf "catches" his prey, it interrupts incoming headclinch.
     
  18. Ash_Kaiser

    Ash_Kaiser Marly you no good jabroni I make you humble... Bronze Supporter

    RAW has never absorbed knockdown moves. I think it absorbs some half circulars though. I'm sure you can absorb some of Taka's rising attacks which are half circular.
     
  19. Unicorn

    Unicorn Well-Known Masher Content Manager Wolf Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    unicorn_cz
    XBL:
    unicorn cz
    I spend another hour in the lab with Wolf and bix thx to EmX - that "reversed" walljugle to what I already knew (wall! [​IMG][3][P] [9][P][+][K] [K][K] [4][K][+][G][K] [​IMG][3][6][P] works wonders - seems to be pretty reliable from most situations! Thank you for that one

    Besides that, I found that after [6][K] MC, you can go for [2][P] [​IMG][3][6][P] [6][6][4][K][+][G][K] juggle - it is 84 dmg, works on everyone except Taka and the timing is much more "friendlier" that the [6][6][4][6][P][+][K] finish (and it gives you 4 more damage)
     
  20. EmX

    EmX Well-Known Member

    Thanks for clarifying about RAW, I knew it took damage but I did not know it would eat knockdowns since I didn't use it a whole lot in before FS.

    That [6][K] combo looks like the way to go, I really hate going after techrollers when I just do [4][6][P] after the [​IMG][3][6][P] part of the combo. I think there are other combos for [6][K] for lighter characters, but the one I mentioned has been my go-to one.

    After [6][2][K]'s stagger Wolf used to be punishable if the opponent struggled it properly (okay, that's going back to VF4, but still). Did this change to where Wolf is + frames? People seem to reflexively freeze after it, not sure if they just not used to seeing the move or what..?
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice