Help with Shun

Discussion in 'Shun' started by CreeD, Oct 31, 2001.

  1. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    Wish I could answer your questions. Nobody on this board is much of a shun fan apparently. Have you seen the shun di clips as played by akira kid? If not, maybe you can find some pointers in those.
    You can download the clips from www.tbzone.co.kr/vf4/
    or ftp://142.167.16.67 (go to the New TBZone movies directory)

    ... they're also available in the media section www.feixaq.com

    Good luck learning the ancient reamer.
     
  2. KNK

    KNK Member

    Ok, here are my shots

    1) I find it easier to do d,f,u,b+P+G motion. Roll the joystick very fast and precisely from 'd' to 'b'. If you do it slowly, Shun will dodge instead and you won't get the throw. You can practice the throw while holding down the G button though.
    You can also do the throw after a CD which means you can start rolling the joystick from d/f position as well.

    The best opportunity to do the throw is after you interrupt the opponent with P+K, uppercut or even a low punch. The opponents will usually guard when they get hit by P+K, expecting a falling kick and you have enough time to buffer the throw motion during P+K animation. When you interrupt the opponent with a low punch, start immediately rolling the joystick from d/f to b. It's easier than you think with a little practice.

    Well, these tricks work like a charm up to a certain level. When you fight better opponents, you shold start mixing up things, it's all about flowcharting. For example, when the opponent tends to back CD after P+K, mix it up with side kick, u+K... you get the idea.

    2) The timing for the chouwan uppercut is exactly the same as VF3. As you may know, you can complete the motion for chouwan with d/f, f+P. It's not neccessary to start from d.

    3) A MC is not neccessary for the auto throw from BK P+K+G, P, P. If you just connect the last P, Shun will automatically throw the opponent. The last punch hits middle, so try mix it with BK P+K+G into P+G back-turned throw or delay the punches to confuse the opponent... but it rarely works against skilled players.

    4) As for floats, those most damaging are...

    If you have less than 6 DPs:
    chouwan - b,f+P,P,P - uppercut or sliding uppercut (b,d/f+P)
    chouwan - f+P,K
    mulekick - f+P+K
    mulekick - u/f+P+K+G - K,K,d+P (last punch can be escaped)
    D_d/f+P (MC) - d+P - D_d/f+P (light weights)
    D_d/f+P (MC) - d+P - b/d+K,K

    If you have 6 DPs:
    chouwan-backfist - sliding upper
    chouwan - chouwan-backfist - sliding upper (only in open stance)
    chouwan-backfist - chouwan-backfist - uppercut (light weights)
    chouwan-backfist - P,P, d+K,K (light weights)

    More than 8 DPs:
    chouwan-backfist - d/f+P,P+K,K,P+K+G (light weights)
    chouwan - P - d/f+P,P+K,K,P+K+G
    mulekick - d/f+P,P+K,K,P+K+G

    More than 16 DPs:
    chouwan - K,K,d+P,K
    chouwan - f+P,P,K
    mulekick - u/f+P+K+G, K,K,d+P,K

    Most of the combos work after d/f+P+G throw as well.

    Hope you can use any of my information.

    Regards,
    Kinam
     
  3. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    Thanks Kinam/versus/images/icons/smile.gif

    For the record, if it even matters, I plan on using Shun in VF4. Hopefully I'll get to play VF4 this weekend, it's the plan anyways. I'll do my best to come up with some good Shun stuff, though I've never been the most creative Shun.... Just the most reckless/versus/images/icons/tongue.gif

    -Chanchai
     
  4. Shunson

    Shunson New Member

    Hoping that there are some VF4 Shun players out there who can help:

    1) Has anyone tried the new "Grab and Fling" throw (u,f,d,b+P+G or d,f,u,b+P+G, req 10DP), or have tips on how to succesfully do it?

    2) Any tips on properly completing the motion for Shun's Chowan Uppercut on VF4 (d,df,f+p)? I had no problem completing the move on VF3/VF3TB, but have only been able to do it by accident on VF4. I am definitely doing something wrong...

    3) Any tips for properly completing the "auto-throw" on Shun's back-turned move > [BK] P+K+G,P,P, [BK] n, (link on MC, unescapable, new move)

    4) Any new strategies for Shun in VF4, especially those involving:

    *Drunken stance
    *Random walk
    *Best floats.

    Thanks,

    Shunson
     
  5. Hayai_JiJi

    Hayai_JiJi Well-Known Member

    Some more stuff that KNK did not mention

    Old man palm MC>d+p>db+p,k

    Mule kick MC>f+p+k
     
  6. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Re: [VFDC CHOICE] Help with Shun

    Also, you need to have at least 10 DPs to get the auto-throw to connect.
     
  7. caltrop

    caltrop Member

    Re: [VFDC CHOICE] Help with Shun

    One of my most used combos for Shun (who does happen to be my fave character... we Shun lovers are few and far between, eh?) is an evading attack followed by a df+p, p, k. Doing this combo 3 times in a match will finish anyone off, I'm pretty sure. Sometimes instead of the df+p, p, k any down attack will work nicely. I really rely on the evade attack too much, but it has gotten me up to 3rd dan so far, and I'm sure I can at least get up to 1st...
     
  8. bisonbison

    bisonbison Member

    Re: [VFDC CHOICE] Help with Shun

    I may be some kind of special newb, but can someone please talk about drunken stance. How to get into it, what it's advantages are?

    I've searched all over the forums but can't find this basic nugget of info.
     
  9. ken

    ken Well-Known Member

    Re: [VFDC CHOICE] Help with Shun

    The drunken stance is Shun's new stance that allows for all attacking possiblities. The frame advantage is great but his range is totally fucked. Yes I meant fucked. So its applications are very limited.

    Knowing how to enter Drunken stance is important:

    f+K
    close range answer to the d+P or similar situations. Short range and linearity means you'll get dodged a lot. Its paramount that you make the opponent block this move at least. You have a free guess if its blocked but you're a sitting duck if your dodged or you miss altogether.


    K,K
    High, High attack makes this method very risky.

    K and hold
    High attack and medium execution makes this risky as well.

    b+K+G and hold K
    Run away move and good attack vs rising attacks. Another great way to enter drunken stance. Note that drunken stance allows you to flow into some of the other stances ie Sitting and Lying.

    Shuns
    Within Drunked stance the ( [DS] denotes from stance)

    [DS]P
    Is a circular attack vs dodgers but hits high. On a hit it'll turn the opponent around but a followup is not guaranteed. Its also a good priority move when blocked

    [DS]K+G
    A fast low sweep.. if you have x amount of drink points you can sweep up to 3 times by hitting K. Range is sorta an issue

    [DS]K
    A mid attacking option that maintains [DS] stance. Good advantage IF BLOCKED. Emphasis on IF. Linearity and range are obvious weaknesses.

    [DS]P+G
    A throw option that leaves you lying down. Short range.

    [DS]G
    Will leave you BT... or backturned. So use [DS]P to bail out of the stance if in doubt.


    Well in VerC.. the home version.. the DS has been powered up. Especially the "f+K". So its meant to be used accordingly. Mainly as a close range retaliation attack vs "d+P" and similar attacks... but the linearity is a concern depending on the style and calibre of your opponents.
     
  10. Ealsen

    Ealsen Well-Known Member

    Re: [VFDC CHOICE] Help with Shun

    I could be wrong. But I am pretty sure that Chouwan is guaranteed after Shun's b+P or [DS]P, if it hits as MC hit.
     
  11. bisonbison

    bisonbison Member

    Re: [VFDC CHOICE] Help with Shun

    Aha. I am a monolingual idiot.

    It's not that I haven't been using drunken stance, it's that I had no idea that the leg raised stance was the drunken stance.

    I guess I just have one unrelated question. Some of Shun's attacks leave him lying flat on his back, not in a stance, just down. Is it possible to tech roll these or should I merely buffer a G roll to get on up out of there?

    Thanks for the help Ken. This site is very imposing for someone who's entirely new to the series.
     
  12. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    Re: [VFDC CHOICE] Help with Shun

    This goes mostly towards the flashy side of things, but applications and guessing games still apply... I like to emphasize the stance transitions for Shun.

    As Ken mentioned, you can go into TA (Turned Away) by tapping G during Drunken Stance. I've been messing with this quite a bit lately and enjoy some of the blindfighting (fighting while TA) with VF4 Shun (though VF3tb Shun had a lot of blindfighting elements that I still miss dearly).

    The DS (Drunken Stance) also allows you to go into sit-down position (should we call this SD? SP? SIT?) and there are some uses for this.

    Overall, I am enjoying the ability to transition between stances with Shun. Been experimenting a bit on it.

    I'll probably write more on the subject in due time, but sadly not now.

    -Chanchai
     
  13. Ealsen

    Ealsen Well-Known Member

    Re: [VFDC CHOICE] Help with Shun

    I am really not too sure about this. I never really utilized Shun's stances that much as they are very vulnerable.
    I had really bad experience against Aoi player /versus/images/icons/smile.gif I get punished alot. But then again it's just me.

    The only stance I use the most to the least is
    1. Lying down.
    From Handstand or Drunken stance

    2. Handstand.
    From df+P,P,K (P+K+G) or P+K,K (P+K+G)

    3. Drunken.
    From K+G or b+K+G

    4. Sit down.
    - When you KO'd opponent to get some extra drinkpoints.
    - Transitioning into this stance is actually quite cool because
    sometimes opponent whiffs their high attack.

    I still don't know how to do blind fighting, Shun's TA that is.
    [BT] P+G rarely connects.
    [BT] P+K+G,P variations are too slow. Even middle kick got me while I was doing P+K+G,P variations.

    And against Leifei, [TA] is a no-no /versus/images/icons/wink.gif
     
  14. Oni-Kage

    Oni-Kage Well-Known Member

    Re: [VFDC CHOICE] Help with Shun

    At last a good thread dealing with Shun strategy and combos... way to go.

    Here's a few things I've picked up...

    Setting up the 3/4 throw... what I usually do is tap down, then return to neutral for a split second, then perform a very fast half circle motion from f to b (across the top). I've noticed that you can hold guard and buffer the d, release guard, and complete the motion as stated. This is useful if you block a move with bad recovery... buffer the throw during that animation. I also buffer the throw during my own bad recovery if I know that they will turtle... moves to set this up would be like the cartwheel kicks (f,f+k or u,n+P+K+G).

    I've started using the handstand kicks more now when I am certain my opponent will do a rising attack... I was amazed to see how they interrupt rising attacks so consistently... and your timing doesn't have to be all that precise either.

    Shun's b+P is really nasty near a wall, because the wall-stun results in a huge window of time to execute more punishing damage. I think the drunken stance punch also sets this up. Now the question is, what is the best wall combo?

    I've noticed that Shun has several moves that give him excellent dodge-setup opportunity if blocked. Either carthweel kick(s), d+P, d/f+K, and even d/f+P+K.

    Speaking of the elbow, has anyone discovered a good quick followup if they block the fully charged elbow? I was thinking that near the wall it would set up for b+P, which would then set up for further damage. Sounds too good to be true though.

    -Oni Kage
     
  15. Ealsen

    Ealsen Well-Known Member

    Re: [VFDC CHOICE] Help with Shun

    Not sure of the best wall combo. However, this might work:
    1. df+P,P,K
    2. Chouwan, df+P,P
    3. K,K,d+P,K (Haven't tried this one yet, but seems it'll connect depends on how your opponent staggered against the wall).

    So far for fully charged elbow, nothing seems to be guaranteed if blocked, but during stagger animation, you have the initiative to engage 50/50 attack, such as:
    1. dash-in - throw.
    2. dash-in - mule kick or chouwan.
    3. df+K+G.
     
  16. Munki

    Munki Member

    Re: [VFDC CHOICE] Help with Shun

    I have a question for all the Shun's out there. I have recently started using Shun, as I love his Drunken style. Anyway, one of the moves that I try and use a good amount is the u+K+G / f+P+K move to get drinks.

    In the Shun thread in the Junky's area (Main Board, forgot the actual name), they point out how a good player can punish Shun for doing this. Why is this? I didn't know that this combo had a bad downside (besides whiffing on the mule kick), and it is one of the tactics that I try and use to get the old geezer blasted.

    I find that it is hard enough as it is to hit with the u+K+G, so I just wanted to know what it is I need to look out for when using this move.

    Also, what is the difference between u+K and u+K+G? Is there any?
     
  17. Ealsen

    Ealsen Well-Known Member

    Re: [VFDC CHOICE] Help with Shun

    Some ppl think that u+K+G / f+P+K combo is a very risky move. Because after your opponent eats your f+P+K, he/she can techroll or quickrise and strike back to punish you such as sidekick or even more damaging-throws while you remain waiting for your drinking animation to finish.
    However, sometimes I think this move is worth the risk. Though I still wanna get out from my habbit of doing u+K+G/f+P+K combo /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

    Well at first I thought u+K and u+K+G are both the same thing. But lately I noticed the damage difference between these two moves in Myke's Movelist on Ver.C.
    So I don't know if this is a typo and I am assuming it's not /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

    As it's been mentioned in older posts, u+K or u+K+G has been nerfed and it's far less effective than u+K or u+K+G's ver B. Unless you're still playing Ver.B arcades, don't abuse u+K or u+K+G too much.
     
  18. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    Re: [VFDC CHOICE] Help with Shun

    u+K --> f+P+K is punishable because after f+P+K, the opponent can tech roll and generally score a free hit on you. The example given before was that Akira could tech roll and get a guaranteed double palm on Shun.

    In general, there are better ways to drink. Manual sipping, throw (if your opponent doesn't escape it all the time), guzzle, etc... You should generally stick to dealing damage after u+K. At least that's what I think.

    -Chanchai
     
  19. Hayai_JiJi

    Hayai_JiJi Well-Known Member

    Re: [VFDC CHOICE] Help with Shun

    Hey Chanchai, How many times have you yourself actually been punished for f+p+k after u+k? I have benn playing with Shun in VF4 since the first day of arcade US VF4 and have never once been punished for it. My Opinion on this is to do it until they show you they can punish you and then change. Dont change in fear of something that your opponent most likely wont do.
     
  20. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    Re: [VFDC CHOICE] Help with Shun

    I've honestly been using it a lot, but out of habit training, I decided to tell whomever I play with to start punishing me for it and how.

    Most of the people I play against are just now starting to really take advantage of the situation, but I'm sure within a week, they'll figure something out.

    Usually I would press on with something, fear or not (heck, I play a Lion that gambles too much and goes for the high risk too much), but memories of playing STA783 (particularly) in VF3tb has it engrained in me to try to avoid anything overall "bad-habit-forming." That guy will just eat you for lunch when he sees something like that! (which is good, of course).

    At least the high-risk stuff I do with Lion (the stuff I do now) can be done safely with really good reflex or when an opening is created, making them more or less attacks that should be saved for when an opponent falls for a setup or makes certain mistakes. When it comes to Shun's u+K --> f+P+K, regardless of when you do it, it's punishable (though I figure there's probably at least one character that can't immediately punish it--though they might have a pretty mean mindgame against Shun in that situation).

    Has Jesse been playing VF4 much? I figure if he's still playing now, he would be punishing you for it by now.

    In any case, despite what I said above, if your opponent shows a weakness of not understanding their given options in a situation... Your right, might as well take advantage of the situation. But in my mind, for training sake, I try to avoid it and try to enhance my other ways of getting drunk quickly while dishing some damage. u+K --> f+P+K just happened to be the easiest way to do it for me with relative speed, especially in Version B when the u+K just kicked the crap out of so many low attacks and low punch.

    -Chanchai
     

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