Historic Rivalry: Bunbun-maru vs Daimon Lau

Difference is Japanese Aim to get better along with Winning.

There's always them few dudes that crush Tier whores and re-break the whole game in Japan. Not in America....Lazy America. America..Home of the youtube teacher. Watch Youtube and steal everything. Sorry USA is tier whores to the 10th power.

That "Playing to Win" qoute was the greatest cop out line created.

 

IMO there is someting significant about the success of MVC2/3 in the west compared to the lukewarm reception in Japan.

I am not geeting into the 'broken' debate, I am just stating the fact that MVC2 was not appealing to the Japanese. I know they are good games in their own, dont flame me yet.

What I am thinking is that maybe the whole tier and counterpicking that MVC2 required to be played at the highest levels was not suitable to Japanese sensibilities. We saw that the most popular characters have been Jacky and Akira(edit: I refer to the character distribution chart),not the most OP fighters per se. Jacky is good, but was never top tier. Akira is very good in FS though.

The fact that Jacky was the most popular choice in Japan for VF5 Vanilla, maybe tells us something about the kind of games japanese people like (or not, maybe im talking utter shit).

 

Exactly right.

Here are some player types that I'll describe off the top of my head...

1) "I like this game and play for fun."

2) "I think this game is broken but I play it a lot and I'm mad so I'll bitch and fuck those tier whores they have no fucking respect for the real gamers."

3) "I'll use the top tiers to win."

4) "I'll fuck with those tier whores by training a lower tier."

5) "I'm going to learn this game so I can beat everyone."


My guess is that the percentages assigned to each description are the same for ANY game.

If the game has low participation, everyone who cares kinda knows who fits each description. Then they get labels assigned to them, personally. The game and its scene go unlabeled.

If the game has high participation, my bet is that the biggest groups have dynamics so strong that they define the game and the attitude people have about it.

Here's my percentage breakdown of the player types above (yours may vary - I'm making this up as I write).

1) 5%

2) 30%

3) 60%

4) 4%

5) 1%


I just play the game I like to play. I get closer to group 5 every chance I get. I hope you all do what's cool for you.

 

6) I like a character and play the game's she's in

 

I guess he was the favorite because in order to use him your knowledge of the basics had to be pretty good to really be effective. He's is the best striker in the game and has damaging throws. Watching how the Japanses play using Hitchecking the Iageri kicks is perfect.

 

I kinda agree with this, but when KoFXI was in heavy rotation, JP players constantly had a team consisting of Kula, Gato, Oswald, Jyuza, Ash, Silber, or a 2 of these guys with a 3rd equally strong character. 3S, while is less of a tier-whoring fest in Japan, still consists of tournament results ending with Ken, Chun, or Urien (there are some exceptions though)... MoTW tournaments in Japan consist of a ton of Grants, Kevins, Gatos, and I think now Kain (there was sort of a breakthrough discovery in '04 with him)... Japanese players counterpick in both ST and SF4... I think Jp players aren't really liking MvC2/3 because its a game that's primarily catered towards Americans/Europeans... SF4 is somewhat catered to the West, but not as much, I think anyway...

 

Oh, I'm sure I could come up with infinity+1 categories if given enough time. Feel free to insert your own. It's my belief that many group related things can be described in percentages. I think percentages change slower than the world's population grows.

Example: If assholes comprise 1% of the world's population now, they'll be at 1.01% in ten years. There will just be millions more of them.

 

Ooh, thanks for putting this on front page Myke.

Yes, this video was part of a special VF4 DVD. Unfortunately, it's all I could find of it.

On the topic of tier whoring and stuff, just a note that when Tokyo found out about Daimon Lau's technique, many many people started playing Lau. A lot of these people had previously thought Lau was a weak character not worth their time playing. Is it really such a bad thing to watch someone do something awesome and go "Wow. I wanna be able to do that too"? Besides, playing top tier characters that everyone else plays means you have to work harder to make a name for yourself. Everyone who wasn't Daimon Lau was just another random Lau to most people, even if they had a similar level of skill.

Boom Boom Maru was a very proud person though, and he staked his reputation on his ability to win with HIS character. He'd refuse to change character just to win because that would be admitting he wasn't the best. People like this are a minority even in Japan.

As for Jacky and Akira, Jacky is probably the easiest character to pick up. In VF2, all you needed for your basics was . Opponent blocks, you get the throw. Opponent ducks, you get God Beat Knuckle. Sort of like Ryu in Street Fighter, you can get into his game knowing only a few moves. I think his popularity is mainly due to that, even in later games.

Akira has always been the VF poster boy. Add to that learning Akira feels very rewarding due to the unique inputs. In a game like VF where the tiers aren't too unbalanced, it seems natural that the character most promoted as the face of the game will be popular.

On MVC not catching on in Japan, I'm not so sure why this is the case when other combo heavy games like Hokuto no Ken, Melty Blood and Fate got popular. Probably came down to them prefering a more Japanese art style more than anything else.

Oh, in America's defence, IIPeru got 2nd place in SF4 Evo online using El Fuerte, and Justin Wong has been destroying people with She Hulk in MVC3. Don't overlook America so easily. It's a bigger player base so of course there are that many more top tier players. There are also that many more low tier players. You just have to look out for them.

 

Also, I believe Crow from Texas took 1st place in both Evo2K5 and 2K6 in Tekken. And this was against top players from Japan and Korea like Yuu and Maddogjin. And I believe DJKOR defeated Holeman in an American tournament, and he has an absolutely incredible Raven. He competed in a tournament in Korea, I believe the Busan tournament in 2004, and defeated everyone on his own. The format was 3 on 3 team battles. Holeman never lost a match. So for somebody in America to be able to beat somebody of that caliber speaks for the skill level present there.

 

A man after my own heart. I love this attitude! <3

Thanks for the great writeup! Circa 2003 or early 2004, Kazu, Burun Burun Maru (aka Crazy Galaxy), Daimon Lau and myself hung out in Kyoto for a day. We played some VF4 and went to an Indian restaurant. Such a surreal day. Daimon was a really nice guy. I recall him being very humble and super shy. Zap also made an appearance at the arcade to say hello! He looks so much like a real-life Mario Brother.

Thanks for the trip down memory lane...

 

I think Marvel is about as well known in Japan as Tatsunoko is in America. I've seen machines a few times in Japan, but noone seemed interested.

 

The Japanese Adam Yuki lol!! This also why i don't counter pick. Your only lying to yourself. Although i can use plenty other in Fighters. When i find a character i stick with him till i figured out every nuance... Then if i can't advance in that game with that character.. Then im in the wrong game.

 

I agree wholeheartedly with this... Granted, as I said before "a win is a win", but I truly appreciate and respect a hard earned win (or just a win with a main/alt regardless of tiers) over a counter picked win...

 

Interesting,.,

When I first started playing VF (VF4) I had no idea what tier even was. I guess I'm still a little foggy on it but I get the main idea. I picked my character because there was an immediate connection when I tried him(Lei Fei) his moves felt kewl and natural. I'm down with the Buddist thing, Kwai Chang Cain was my boy, and Lei Fei is a shaolin monk according to the VF story, so thats how I picked my character.

I could care less whether he's weaker than other characters, or whether it requires more work to win with him, or whether none of the top players use him, or whether out of all of the people who win tournaments, very few win using Lei Fei. I like him,
I like his style, and win or lose that's who I'm bringing.

I guess I'm a little on Bun Bun Maru's side in that respect.
I don't know if he had an alt, but If I can't beat U with my main, then I can't beat U.

As i said many times b4, there is no shame in defeat, there is only dishonor if you handle defeat poorly.

But nice Vid and write up.

 

I neither agree nor disagree cuz I didn't read =/
Lol, j/k MasterPo, welcome back. Don't let haters keep you away man, look even when I don't agree with you I'm glad that to see activity on this site. Your p.o.v.'s are out there sometimes but most of the time you get people talking and that's a lot better than hearing the fucking crickets chirping whenever I come here.

I guess we're talking about tiers now? My two useless pennies:
I used to love watching 3rd Strike vids but now, not so much. I got sick and tired of seeing Yun/Yang and Chun vids. Every once in a while you may get a Ken/Makoto/Ryu/Dudley but for the most part it's the Chinese Triads who are boring as dirt to watch.
I do still find myself watching old vids of YSB (Hugo player); TM (Q player); KSK (Alex player) and RX (Urien player) cuz it's so damn fun to see those low tier chars take out the Chinese connection.
When it comes to VF, yeah I got tired of seeing Shun players in VF5 but I don't think I can get tired of seeing Shun players in VF5FS, he's way too fun to watch rolling all over the place. Imho, they really stepped up the creativity level in FS, it seems like there's so many different ways to go about setups and combos and even though some combos deal more or less the same damage, the fact that you can switch up a combo for different kinds of oki and not lose too much damage in the process is genius to me and will lead to a lot more creativity and less boredom watching matches even if the same chars keep being selected.
Like someone mentioned, it's more about char appeal, at least to me. I can't have fun using a char like say, Dural, and keep kicking ass but not having fun cuz let's face it, Dural is pretty damn boring.
Btw, isn't about time for a new boss? Maybe a redesign? Shit, something!

 

Here's hoping that this playable Dural in ver.A of FS is nerfed/beefed so she doesn't become a mundane character...

A new boss would be dope, but a story would need to be fleshed out for all of this crap to make sense I think...

Anyway, I've always liked watching Kuroda play Q in 3S... For someone to play such a low tier character and still be a threat to other top tier players is phenomenal... Sean P is also a great player... I've never really seen a good Sean player that posed a threat with the limited amount of moves/options...

 

100% Agreed on all accounts.

Not only that, it feels like something in me won't allow me to even advance with a character I don't want to use. I could pick the broken choice character in a game, but if it was a character I didn't want to use, or didn't like the character in the first place, it doesn't matter if that characters is braindead easy or not.

 

If only I could have thought up a name as awesome as "Bun Bun Maru". As much as I like the one I have now, I may have to brain storm a new Gamer Tag.

 

Isn't the best person the won who wins regardless of character?

 

No.... SMH!!!