Hitel Tournament Clips @ No Mercy (Korea)

- I might think you're a complete asshole, but I don't go around saying "Even though I've never seen him, I bet jeff sucks at VF blah blah blah."

I find that highly ironic considering that is exactly what you're doing with the Vanessa player, the finalist of a tournament.

Gah, baited into replying again because you said something too inane to pass up.
Do you get the distinction I'm making by using the words "EVEN THOUGH I'VE NEVER SEEN HIM"? ... We've both seen the vanessa player in action for something like 30-50 rounds. You've NEVER seen me play. So unless the vanessa player has a little VF.net screen hovering in front of her that says "win rate: 98%" ... your comment about taking him over me for money is either staggeringly naive or just a pissy way to take a verbal potshot at me (and why? just because I say something you don't quite agree with.)

As for the distinction you claim you're making... yeah, sure. It was for other people's benefit. You really care about the reputation of Nameless Korean Vanessa Player on the VFDC media board... you weren't playing to the crowd with your cutesy little five dollar bet comment.
Right.

 

> Do you understand the difference?

do you understand that you're totally full of shit? and that nothing you can say here can help you? don't waste your time anymore trying to defend and excuse yourself, you fucking prick.

 

Ahh, I misinterpreted you. Fine, that's fair, but still, the fact of the matter is I would still put my money against you. Your off-whack "critique" of that Vanessa player is proof enough for me that you don't know jack about her.

You really care about the reputation of Nameless Korean Vanessa Player on the VFDC media board...

No, I'm just sick of people who can't play putting down a player who, as far as I'm concerned, has proven himself by advancing to the finals of a highly competitive tournament.

 

**people who can't play putting down a player who**

what do you know of creed and his playing ability? when was the last time you played him. in vf4. answer honestly, you scum-sucking twat.

**as far as I'm concerned, has proven himself by advancing to the finals of a highly competitive tournament.**

because as we all know, upsets and major wins by (much) less skilled opponents never, EVER happen. right.

 

Bungle, sometimes you remind me of a fly that buzzes around, always sticking its nose into other people's arguments. Don't try to be such a big daddy for Creed, eh? I'm sure he can defend himself just fine.

I have never seen Creed play, but 1) the ton of simple things that he posts that are just plain wrong, and a lot of it are shockingly basic stuff, and 2) things that I have heard, are enough for me to make my own conclusion.

In any case, to trash the runner up of a competition, you better be DAMN good yourself, or you should just shut up. It's OK to say something like "I don't like the way he plays," or "he only uses a few moves," or whatever, but he's "weak," "throws out random attacks," "doesn't understand initiative??" That's just whack.

Am I out of line here? I don't think so. I think the above really needs to be said.

because as we all know, upsets and major wins by (much) less skilled opponents never, EVER happen. right.

Riiight. Upsets all the way to the CHAMPIONSHIP game of a tournament. Happens ALL the time.

 

almost as amusing as our FL threads...but not quite. /versus/images/icons/crazy.gif

 

> I'm sure he can defend himself just fine.

oh he can, sometimes better than me, but i take pleasure in trashing you independently.

> I have never seen Creed play, but..

but! oh well of course there is a but. but still, you've never even seen the dude, yet you see still fit to judge that he cannot play vf at all entirely on hearsay. you're a fucking retard, jeff.

> the ton of simple things that he posts that are just plain wrong, and a lot of it are shockingly basic stuff

AHAHHahHahAHHah. that's YOU, jeff. do you have ANY self-introspection at all?

and how come you NEVER point out any of the tons of mistakes he makes?

> you better be DAMN good yourself, or you should just shut up.

oh really? whenever you comment on basketball or whatever the fuck else you watch, i doubt you shut up because you're not DAMN good yourself.

i suck at vf4, but i can still make accurate, educated, justified comments on players.

> Upsets all the way to the CHAMPIONSHIP game of a tournament. Happens ALL the time.

tell me that it has NEVER happened before, anywhere, especially vf. you simply cannot, you deluded snot.

 

/me bows.

i try my best. and half of the credit goes to jeff, for providing the board with such wonderful flame-bait and monumentally asinine statements.

 

jeez i just asked if they were good or not... i take it that you all don't think much of Vanessa but what about the Jacky? also, i saw one of the earlier Akira matches and it seemed to me that he made a lot of mistakes (missed combos, missed the SPoD) that i'm just not used to seeing on these videos.. do the Koreans ever play with the Japanese?

 

Okay this kinda has gone enough me thinks. . .

First let me share some stuff--what I consider to be an objective facts. . . From reading the posts in tbzone here are what I gather about the tournament:

1. As you can guess, this was a PS2 tourney. Some participants did not own PS2 or even have played PS2. While you were allowed to bring your own controlers, some inevitably had difficulty adjusting.

2. From what I gather, over 100 players showed up, (including at least one female player) They intended the tourney to have a format similar to the world cup soccer, which would theoretically allow you a chance to advance even if you lose once. But because of the number of players, beating every player you fight was pretty much the only way to guarrantee your advance.

3. Akira kid was not there, but to give some idea of the competition: there was one Jeffry player who apparently did pretty well against the Japanese Emperor Aoi (According to the posts, he had about 4 wins and two losses against the Japanese Emperor Aoi when he visited Seoul.) He got eliminated early in this tournament. Some people in TBZone complained how luck played huge role in this tourney and many who deserved to advance to top 32 got eliminated early.

And here are some comments:
1. Those Daioh videos are from arcade where people play all the time, not necessarily under pressure. And they pick what they think are the most exciting matches out of the bazillion matches being played there everyday.

2. Try taping your own matches sometime. . . This can be an eyeopener as it would let you realize how BAD AND/OR BORING your own play is. (If your own video doesn't point out bazillion bad/boring things you do in a match, then either you are a VF God or clueless.) All of sudden you will gain a new appreciation for all these videos. And beside, this subject has come up in TBZone too. There was a guy who basically said: "Is AK/Shinz that awesome? It seems to me I can beat him looking at his video." (Remember not all the TBZone posters live in Seoul and had a chance to play him,) The conclusion of the debate was basically this: You can't judge until you get to actually play against him. My recent experience in Philadelphia clearly taught me this lesson. And to me it's clear that other players in this tourney does NOT lack experiences against Vanessa. See how that other Jacky just dodges the third hit of her f+PKK string? How many players you know do that? Yet that Jacky still lost. Again, my Philadelphia exp taught me that you just can't judge before you play him.

 

Re: Okay this kinda has gone enough me thinks. . .

I agree completely with Hyun. Maybe someone just want to play Van like Jacky, i don't see anyone back in vf3 days complain about how jackies do in tourney (one pattern, one throw). In a tourney/pressure situation almost everybody starts to play really basic. I think that particular Vanessa throw just annoys people more because it takes forever to execute. (and that stupid laugh at the end doesn't help neither)

Also, good players can land a particular throw when they want to. We all see how the wolf players in Daioh clips kept on landing the K.S. and it has the same throw escape command as G.S. If every "good" player can throw escape at will in all situation then perhaps all shun player should just give up. In vf3, we all know we should break b+p+g against kage yet we still saw lot of tft done all over the place.

 

No, I'm just sick of people who can't play putting down a player who, as far as I'm concerned, has proven himself by advancing to the finals of a highly competitive tournament.

*snort* .. .I "can't play" because of the offhand criticism I made of this Vanessa on the Media board. I guess you missed the other thousand posts I've made on gameplay. I guess my critique based on clips is somehow less accurate than your critique of me based on posts.

Were I to redo that original post over again I probably WOULD give more respect to the Vanessa player, but only because of Hyun's informed and literate post. If the Vanessa waded her way through a hundred man tournament, she must have been doing something right. Your post on the other hand was a waste of time, just another flamebait.

 

" because as we all know, upsets and major wins by (much) less skilled opponents never, EVER happen. right."
Riiight. Upsets all the way to the CHAMPIONSHIP game of a tournament. Happens ALL the time.

The tournament 'round here ended up being a shamble as most of the best competition was eliminated in the first round ! Granted there was no looser's bracket ( which was harsh ) made it so there was no remdemption for fucking up. All this to say, though rare, it does occur to have tourneys with crap finalists. The best players are the one's who will be able to loose ( no one's invincible ) but win regularly. That means on the entire gammet of possible fight situations the player's been through, he has won on the regular. You can loose at any given time, wether it be a against a good player or scrub (although only one is likely). Also I've seen a vortex of good players take the plunge in a massive wave of scrub power ( I've escaped and have been victimised at tourneys to this phenomenon ).

As far as the Hitel videos go...Their allright. Not Vf.net brass, but they'd give the north american crowd a run for sure.

 

and how come you NEVER point out any of the tons of mistakes he makes?

YOUR way of "not giving a shit" about what I say is to dedicate hours of your life posting profanity. MY way of really not caring is to just let people continue spouting errors, and let people who know better snicker along with me.

My one purpose in criticizing Creed, and take note Creed, because I'm not going to bother to reply to your post, is to get him off his high horse. The utter disrespect shown to the Vanessa player is just appalling, especially given the source.

Also, I don't buy this "Oh he was just lucky to reach the finals, all the good players got eliminated" stuff. Just think about every athletic tournament we have--there will always be "upsets" but there is never a need to put an asterisk next to the champion's name (asterisk: Maryland is the 2002 champion only because a lucky Indiana team beat a superior Duke team??). Why? Because as long as the game is played within the rules, it doesn't matter under what circumstances the champion won the tournament.

There are good players, and there are winners. This Vanessa player, for this tournament at least, is a winner (and just one step short of being a champion). It irritates me to see people try and demean what this Vanessa player has accomplished, especially when they still have a long way to go to prove themselves.

A lot of people like to talk big on the Internet and pass themselves off as experts, but the true test of mettle comes in real match play. This Vanessa player has done it; many of us have not. Those who have not should not criticize those who have.

 

Re: Okay this kinda has gone enough me thinks. . .

Excellent post Hyun!

Clips should be nothing more than entertainment, not always as a means to study how good the opponent is.

 

there's a new language support on babelfish. it now translates jeff-speak, aka asshole (as in, "do you speak asshole?").

original: "MY way of really not caring is to just let people continue spouting errors, and let people who know better snicker along with me."

translation: "I dont correct him [on my messageboard, thereby supporting misinformation!] because it amuses myself and the other VFDC LORDS ON HIGH who know better than dumb matt, who sucks!"

original: "because I'm not going to bother to reply to your post, is to get him off his high horse."

translation: "i'm not going to reply because any further posts will only make a bigger ass out of myself by matt, who sucks! [ie, standard exit reply with snotty, totally off-base insult]"

original: "Why? Because as long as the game is played within the rules, it doesn't matter under what circumstances the champion won the tournament."

translation: "less skilled players/opponents can and do win. err, wait a minute..."

original: "A lot of people like to talk big on the Internet and pass themselves off as experts"

translation: "a lot of people like to talk big on the Internet and pass themselves off as experts, and i am no different. in fact i know more than just about everyone here because i own vfdc and have met yu suzuki. plus i own a boxster."

original: "but the true test of mettle comes in real match play."

translation: "as we all know, the validity of any and all statements relating to VF (and many outside) depends entirely on the skill of the player. and since matt (who sucks!) hasn't played this van, he can't judge the player. and since i haven't played matt, i can't judge matt... .. . .oh, shit."

 

My one purpose in criticizing Creed, and take note Creed, because I'm not going to bother to reply to your post, is to get him off his high horse. The utter disrespect shown to the Vanessa player is just appalling, especially given the source.

As patiently as possible: How does attacking and criticising me equal "this Vanessa player deserves more respect than you gave him"? Your point seems to be that
A: you've decided arbitrarily and without support of any kind that I'm a shitty VF player and that therefore
B: This van player could whup me, consistently and without fail.

Your support for the Vanessa comes entirely from Hyun, who took the time to find out specifics about the tournament. Had he said it was a half dozen guys fucking around, could you really attach such significance to what you saw in the clips? Would you be so quick to say that this is top tier vanessa play?
Knowing only what I saw, I posted what was probably an unfair critique of the Vanessa. But the point of your post, which you come around to admitting a half dozen posts later, was simply to bash me. Your post never had a single thing to do with the quality of the Vanessa's play, which makes the high horse comment pretty ironic. Righteous indignation over my attack on poor Gudamy, but it's acceptible to attack CreeD because you feel he's not qualified to judge. You base this on past posts you haven't listed and 0 games watching me or playing against me.

If I'm not qualified to judge, you aren't either.

 

original: "but the true test of mettle comes in real match play."

translation: "as we all know, the validity of any and all statements relating to VF (and many outside) depends entirely on the skill of the player. and since matt (who sucks!) hasn't played this van, he can't judge the player. and since i haven't played matt, i can't judge matt... .. . .oh, shit."

While I do think Creed sucks (based on what so-and-so-and-so who have played him and told so-and-so-and-so and so-and-so-and-so told me, and all the egregarious errors he makes in his posts), that has nothing to do with my point.

If he was to play me tomorrow and kick my ass, then I will humbly bow away and utter my sincerest apologies for my misplaced assumptions. But even then, that still has nothing to do with my point.


If you haven't proven yourself, don't criticize the skills of those who have.


I may not have proven myself in a tournament, but certainly, neither has Creed; he hasn't even proven himself through word of mouth.

 

nice double post. having trouble editing? or rather, covering your ass.

"While I do think Creed sucks (based on what so-and-so-and-so who have played him and told so-and-so-and-so and so-and-so-and-so told me, and all the egregarious errors he makes in his posts), that has nothing to do with my point."

"If he was to play me tomorrow and kick my ass, then I will humbly bow away and utter my sincerest apologies for my misplaced assumptions. But even then, that still has nothing to do with my point."

"If you haven't proven yourself, don't criticize the skills of those who have."

"I may not have proven myself in a tournament, but certainly, neither has Creed; he hasn't even proven himself through word of mouth."

you fucking imbecile. do you have any interconnecting neurons? any at all? how the fuck can you say that your belief that he sucks (which therefore invalidates his opinions of the player) has nothing to do with your idea about having to be a proven player before you can before criticize a player? take off the logic and reality blinders, fucktard. the two go hand in hand.

why don't you humor us and tell us about these so-and-so-and-so's?

 

My God.

ice-9 = unproven player 1
Creed = unproven player 2
Vanessa = proven player

Unproven player 2 trashing proven player -> bad

Unproven player 1 criticizing unproven player 2 -> neutral, at least

Unproven player 1 criticizing unproven player 2 for trashing proven player -> good; hell, unproven player 1 should be applauded


Maybe you should run that through Babelfish a couple of times if you still don't understand the logic.



Add On:

Look, Creed, I feel bad for how far this has gone. I do feel a bit of an asshole but I think my point needed to be said. Keep in mind that I actually tried to pass my original message forward in a facetious, non-threatening manner.