hitting the opponent while they're on the ground

being relatively new to vf i know that there are certain aspects of the game that i need to work on (like throw escaping for one), but the one aspect of the game that really has me PERPLEXED is the get-up system and how to get around it.

for example: i use goh, and i use his /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif throw, the opponent is now otg (on the ground). now, i hear that goh's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif knee is really good for hitting the opponent out of their get up /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, because it grants a guaranteed basara when it hits MC in it's later frames. so, i get near the opponent, they roll back, and their get up /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif beats my /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif. so, i try again...same result.

i can honestly say, with this particular scenario, i don't think my /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif ever beat the get-up /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif ONCE. my knee was always either too early or too late (or something). is their like an EXACT 1-2 frame window where i'm missing something? did i hear wrong about the usefulness of goh's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif?

i find myself knocking opponents otg, and evading immediately after. it sucks not knowing how to apply pressure when i know i could be.

 

Re: hitting the opponent while they're on the grou

I haven't been able to break a rising attack with Akira's KNEE either. Same situation you describe. I could do it in in EVO and FT. Haven't landed it in 5 though. Might be a gameplay change.

Edit: broke a low one last night - so... nevermind /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/blush.gif

 

Re: hitting the opponent while they're on the grou

then i guess my next question is what move SHOULD i be using to beat out a get up /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif? i mean, obviously every character has their own move that's really great to use, but what are the characteristics of said move? does it have to beat a mid hit? does it have to be half circular? does it have to do over a certain amount of dmg (like vf4:evo)?

 

Re: hitting the opponent while they're on the grou

It depends on the rising kick, you have to somehow get a feeling for it. And when they roll back, dash a little bit, remember that even if you did a perfectly good knee against the rising attack, it might not work when the distance is too big.

 

Re: hitting the opponent while they're on the grou

You do realize that the opponent on the ground can vary the timing of the rising kick thus making the timing much harder for your knee.

In general, you want to use a mid attack that does alot of damage and have a high number of hit frames.

 

Watch.

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If you do it too early, the rising kick will normal hit you. If you do it too late, the rising kick will MC(yellow light) you.


Both Akira and Goh's knee has an hit detection of 3 frames. The trick is to watch for the rising kick rather than guess. Rising kick comes out rather slowly imo.

 

Thanks for the note.

I'll be putting some practice in towards that one.

 

Re: hitting the opponent while they're on the grou

of course i know about the varying time for rising kicks, as well as spacing close to my opponent so as to have my move connect.

 

thank you myke, i never really thought of a "passive offense" approach.

btw, had i known that vf'ers also call it okizeme, i would have been saying that all along. you guys call reversals sabakis, so i figured you'd have a different name for okizeme as well.

 

yea, i suppose... now that i think about it they are pretty different given that sabaki's are like a move-specific reversal built-in to an attack, which is one thing i am willing to admit i wish tekken had as it does does add a nice amount of depth to the game.

actually, i did some more testing but with a different character and a different move and i came up with some interesting results...

i was testing with eileen with her generic /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif against a get-up /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif. what i found odd was that when i was too close to the downed opponent there was NO WAY for me to time the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif to beat out the get-up /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif. it's like the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif's active frames were so short up close it voided any kind of contact.

now... i allowed my opponent to get up while staying a slight distance away. while still doing a /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif against a get-up /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, timed correctly, i beat it EVERY TIME. mind you, this is the first time ANY attack i've ever done against a get-up /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif has beaten it out. i'm amazed because i've never read before how being close to a downed opponent actually put you at a huge disadvantage.

i'm thinking that in order for goh's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif to hit the way i want it to i actually have to stay slightly away from the opponent in order for it to effectively "hit" the opponent. close enough where it will hit, but far away enough so the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif actually becomes "active".

 

when people whiff rising attacks, you have more time than you think to hit them during the recovery.

The timing might be a bit later than you think if you want to get a consistent result.

 

Re: hitting the opponent while they're on the grou

We call them reversals too. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

Reversals are moves that only function when they intercept an incoming attack. Ex: /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif for Akira, Pai and Wolf

Sabakis are attack moves that can deflect an incoming attack with proper timing, sabakis work whether they intercept a move or not.
Ex: Shun's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, Goh's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif and Sarah's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif

There are also moves with reversal type qualities called inashis which are different for the fact they usually don't do damage.

You can read more about the differences on this page.
Reversal, Sabaki and Inashi chart for VF4:Evo

 

Re: hitting the opponent while they're on the grou

yea shag, i corrected myself a few posts ago, but thanks. ^^

srider: yea, i guess i just don't like giving the downed opponent the advantage of actually attacking me. but, my last post was more directed to the fact that i HAD found a way to stop get-up /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif!

 

Re: hitting the opponent while they're on the grou

If I think someone's going to get up with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, I tend to use /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif

It I think they're gonna get up with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, I use /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif after delaying briefly.

(This is as Lion, incidentally.)

There are probably much better ways of doing it, but I regularly take down friends and the AI out of their rising attacks with these.