Homosexuality and Gay Marriage

This has been in the United States news lately and I felt like writing about it. Here’s my take on homosexuality and gay marriage...

I think homosexuality is genetic. People can be born black, brown, red, white, yellow, or a mixture of those colors. People can be born with six fingers on one hand. People can be born with both sets of sex organs or none at all. I think people can be born gay.

People shout that it’s a choice to be gay. I don’t remember choosing to like women - I’ve always liked women. If someone could choose homo or heterosexuality, why would they choose a path so full of derision, fear, and hatred?

People argue that gay men forcibly recruit impressionable young boys. I would title these so-called recruiters as predators, kidnappers, or pedophiles. They might happen to be gay. This does not mean all homosexuals prey on others. I’m sure there are plenty of heterosexual pedophiles. Some Catholic priests prey on young boys. Does this mean all Catholic priests prey on young boys? I don’t think homosexual equates to pedophile. Homosexuality is the love of the same sex. Pedophilia is the sexual exploitation of children.

People complain that multiple partners and revolving door relationships are rampant in the gay community, particularly among men. Funny that I could have sex with a different women every day and those same people might see it as a badge of honor.

I think most homosexual relationships involve consenting adults - consenting adults that were born gay and have always loved people of the same sex. They want the same rights and benefits of heterosexual married couples. Why should they be denied this? Because they were born gay? It would be analogous to deny marriage to black people because they were born black. Some people shout that it defiles the sanctity of marriage. Fifty percent of heterosexual marriages end in divorce. I don’t think those marriages are sacred.

Here’s some questions I have for everyone who is against gay marriages: Why do you care so much about what other people do with their own lives? It’s not your business. I’m talking about people in love. What could that hurt? Does the marriage of two men or two women devalue your own heterosexual marriage? Do you view it as a blight like someone who leaves junked cars in his front yard and devalues your neighborhood? Does the sight of two men holding hands bother you? It’s not like you’re witnessing live gay pornography on the street. Some people get bothered when they see whites, or Mexicans moving into their neighborhoods. How is that different? Maybe people feel more justified and safe being homophobes rather than racists. Do you feel the need to shield your children from homosexuality? Maybe you could say “well, some people are born liking the same sex. They’re people, too. Accept that they’re different from you.†I agree that everyone has right to their own opinion, but that doesn’t require its expression through judgement, persecution, protests, humiliation, insults, and violence. I haven’t read about a group of gay men killing a straight guy just because he’s straight.

Since a gay couple can’t bear offspring, do you think that they’ll just adopt and try to brainwash their kids into homosexuality? Again, I don’t think sexual orientation is a choice. What if an ex-highschool football star has kids and forces them to play football? Is that any different? Funny that the second scenario is found acceptable when it’s reworded to “I just want my kid to enjoy what I did.†Does it bother you that children with gay parents might just end up viewing gay relationships as no big deal or normal? I don’t think homosexual couples want to force their sexuality on their children. If they do, I think they’re no different from smokers and alcoholics that light up around their kids or regularly invite them to taste a little beer at dinner.

Finally, in some passages, the Bible calls homosexuality an abomination. I think those passages were written by homophobes. I believe in universal salvation. I don’t think God is so petty. If there is a hell and God regularly casts all the homosexuals into it, then homophobes don’t have anything to worry about. All hatred, persecution, denial of rights, all of it is moot. Homophobes will be free of all those nasty gay people when they go to heaven.

I hope that everyone who spends energy hating and denouncing people who are born differently from themselves would turn that energy toward awareness and understanding that genetic difference is not a threat. I hope people stop fearing change. Some people fear seeing Asian language billboards off the freeway. Some people fear Spanish language radio. Some people fear technology. Some people fear the idea of a wedding ceremony with two brides. People scream that we speak english in America. People scream that computers are bad. People scream that marriage can only be between man and woman. They worry that their cozy little world is being invaded. To you I say that I think the world is bigger than you and what you perceive it to be and how you think it should be. I’m sorry you are all afraid. I wish you weren’t.

 

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Plague said:
Some people fear Spanish language radio.

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what the hell? hahah id like to see that. estos gringos estan locos para el carajo. hahahahaha. qiuen le puede dar miedo el radio espanol?

"WHAT? RADIO CUBA? WTF? OH GOD NNOOOOOOOO"

 

tl;dr

But gay ppl and gay marriage is cool with me.*


*not gay

 

Spare me of these noble nonsense.

 

That's a well presented argument Plague. Couldn't really diagree with anything you've said.

As usual with change, people fear it at first. Gays being given marriage and adoption rights scares people in the same way heart-transplants scared people in the 60s.

I think as a species we're very short-sighted and herd-like. We'll denounce anything that dosen't bring immediate benefits. You see the same fear and salivating towards genetic research. Did you know the United Nations nearly voted to ban human clone research despite it potentially saving thousands of lives and curing many birth defects?

People say "we shouldn't tamper with nature!" Yet, the very reson we live the lives we live in the West is because we've changed our environment and advanced medicine. I see giving gay people more rights as "social advancment", and along the same lines as giving women the vote and abolishing slavery.

 

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Finally, in some passages, the Bible calls homosexuality an abomination. I think those passages were written by homophobes.

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The bible was not written by anyone, it was a revelation from god to mankind /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

And another thing plague are you gay ?

 

The bible was not written by anyone, it was a revelation from god to mankind

True dat... but with all these translations and man changing info that was written, no one can be 100% certain what they read is in its pure form. I personnaly dont believe the bible is 100% true to its origin, but I do know there truths within it(yes im a christian)

I have nothing against those who persue homosexual relations. I cant condemn nor condone it, and neither can anyone else. anyone who truely reads the bible know that no sin is greater than another and there is a lake of fire for the lairs, the horemongers, adulterers, murderers..etc. We as humans put value on sin not GOD. ALL SIN EQUALS DEATH,We are all sinners and fall short of the glory of GOD. This is why Jesus made the ultimate sacrifice for our soul salvation.
each person has to go through their own trials and tribulations, and at the end will be judge by the creator of all things.

 

I reckon he said he had a wife once /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Secondly, I think it was really well presented.

 

I don't believe in homosexual marraiges. Though the Bible goes through many translations, it is still a very accurate document (the most accurate English version I know is the King James edition). The Bible states against homosexual marraiges in Genisis, man and woman were created to marry each other. The first humans were Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. That is why I don't believe in homosexual marraiges, because even though it is a state given privelige, it is also a religious bondage, and the bond cannot go against the religion.
To you Plague, I disagree with your comment that homosexuality is a genetic problem. men and woman have switched from homosexuality to heretasexuality and vice versa before in their life. Now there are cases when a man is born with estrogen and becomes attracted to other men, but these are far and few.
To conclude, I believe that there should be no homosexual marraiges of any kind within the Christian Church.

 

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Though the Bible goes through many translations, it is still a very accurate document (the most accurate English version I know is the King James edition)

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And you know this because you've read the original text and compared translation? Original in this case is exactly as implied. The very first commitments to text.

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The bible was not written by anyone, it was a revelation from god to mankind

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The obviousness is that the bible was written by someone. Even though you can say God dictated or inspired the work itself, some forty people worked on what has become the bible. Internal inconsistencies and changes in style and grammar even point to multiple authors within chapters and verses. there is some evidence that schools of authors worked on whole chunks of the bible.

More problematically is the real world concern of humans outside of the "age of miracles" to bend things to their desire. translations and interpretations all make for changes in meaning. give it the time it has had to survive and you could see major accidents or deliberate alterations in presentation.

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The Bible states against homosexual marraiges in Genisis, man and woman were created to marry each other

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Actually, its funny. The bible doesn't really say anything against homosexual marriages (it doesn't even make the top 10 list). The old testament does have some nice things to say a man lying with a man (calling it an abomination) and, of course, God does destroy sodom but there isn't anything in scripture that flags sodom for destruction because of homosexuality; there were many perverse things going on there.

As far as leviticus goes the same punishment reserved for a homosexual act was allowed for cursing your mother and father, working on the sabbath and blasphemy; none receive the same attention as this one act. Interesting.

Also, Jesus goes directly against the Old Testament rules (including the sabbath) Christian Hermeneutics give precendece of Jesus' teachings over that of the Old testament. More tellingly He has nothing to say himself on homosexuality.

Paul does but the translation of the word he uses in isn't that of homosexuality but of 'male prostitute. So who he is speakign against isn't exactly clear. Moreover, it is thought (again, given translation of certain key words) that the major offense was pederasty, keeping young boys for sexual pleasure. A sodomite meant someone engaging in unnatural sex, not necessarily homosexual acts and again it is thought the word itself might refer to those kept young boys only.

On the subject of marriage. Considering the divorce rate the so-called 'sanctity of marriage' is obviously not a real priority for heterosexuals. I think they just want to keep the court costs and idea of children as bargaining chips to themselves.

GE

 

I'm glad that you all are taking time to respond. I don't think what I'm writing about is noble, I just want more and more people to agree with me. I don't think it's nonsense - I just find this to be a cause I want to pursue. It's really just what I think.

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MAXIMUM said:

That's a well presented argument Plague. Couldn't really diagree with anything you've said.

As usual with change, people fear it at first. Gays being given marriage and adoption rights scares people in the same way heart-transplants scared people in the 60s.

I think as a species we're very short-sighted and herd-like. We'll denounce anything that dosen't bring immediate benefits. You see the same fear and salivating towards genetic research. Did you know the United Nations nearly voted to ban human clone research despite it potentially saving thousands of lives and curing many birth defects?

People say "we shouldn't tamper with nature!" Yet, the very reson we live the lives we live in the West is because we've changed our environment and advanced medicine. I see giving gay people more rights as "social advancment", and along the same lines as giving women the vote and abolishing slavery.

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Thanks for the support. Genetic research rocks. Plugging in numbers to determine what your kid will be like would be wild. Don't know what it would do to them when they find out their parents made them a certain way, though. Also, imagine if fat people could alter their coding to increase metabolism and become thin - or if women who wanted bigger breasts could just grow them naturally. I can't say whether this is all right or wrong, but it would be cool if people could pursue genetic resequencing by choice.

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Ura_Bahn said:
The bible was not written by anyone, it was a revelation from god to mankind /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

And another thing plague are you gay?

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I think the bible is a compilation of things that people thought and wanted to preserve - so they wrote it down. Funny that you'd follow such a strong statement with /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif. As to your question - why do you care? /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

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virtuaPAI:
I have nothing against those who persue homosexual relations. I cant condemn nor condone it, and neither can anyone else. anyone who truely reads the bible know that no sin is greater than another and there is a lake of fire for the lairs, the horemongers, adulterers, murderers..etc. We as humans put value on sin not GOD. ALL SIN EQUALS DEATH,We are all sinners and fall short of the glory of GOD. This is why Jesus made the ultimate sacrifice for our soul salvation.
each person has to go through their own trials and tribulations, and at the end will be judge by the creator of all things.

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As far as condemn and condone, are you talking like throwing people into hell or heaven yourself? I can condemn or condone whatever I want. I just have to face the consequences for my actions. I place value on what some people call sins; I'd rather someone steal a token from me at the arcade than kill my wife. I don't believe God would see those two examples as having equal weight. I don't think God takes dead people one by one and says "Shit, dude, your sin count is fucking off the charts here. Off to hell you go." I think His forgiveness is universal. If it wasn't it would be wierd. There's probably a person in the world who can forgive or has forgiven any injustice done to them. If that person can forgive everything and God can't or won't, how does that make any sense? Is the person more loving and understanding than God?


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Snake_Eater said:
I don't believe in homosexual marraiges. Though the Bible goes through many translations, it is still a very accurate document (the most accurate English version I know is the King James edition). The Bible states against homosexual marraiges in Genisis, man and woman were created to marry each other. The first humans were Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. That is why I don't believe in homosexual marraiges, because even though it is a state given privelige, it is also a religious bondage, and the bond cannot go against the religion.
To you Plague, I disagree with your comment that homosexuality is a genetic problem. men and woman have switched from homosexuality to heretasexuality and vice versa before in their life. Now there are cases when a man is born with estrogen and becomes attracted to other men, but these are far and few.
To conclude, I believe that there should be no homosexual marraiges of any kind within the Christian Church.

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Heh, your syntax is funny to me... You don't believe in homosexual marriages. I've heard people say they don't "believe in credit cards." I know they mean that they don't have one or don't want one - but I always wanted to say "so, would it really disturb you if I showed you a credit card, would you run screaming 'NO! I DON'T BELIEVE IN IT!'?"

As far as the Bible being accurate - I've read and heard that it's full of inconsistencies. I don't want to research them so I can post them here. How do you know the King James version is the most accurate? What if it isn't? I still think it's a collection of thoughts that can't really be classified as accurate or inaccurate. I can only agree or disagree with parts of it.

Edit: GodEater's post showed up while I was writing mine. What he wrote is what I've read and heard and agree with concerning the Bible. A good friend of mine studied Theology and Psychology for 14 years at Claremont. That's where I get most of my information regarding religion and awareness.

Thanks for your input, GE. I think it's interesting and it adds credibility to what I'm going on about.

Adam and Eve... I think their real names were "grrghpppht" and "hrrrngffahhh." I think the first humans just kinda grunted at each other and ate and fucked when they felt like it.

I don't call homosexuality a genetic problem. Don't put words in my mouth. I call it an occurrence. I don't assign value to it. Look at lesbians that some people deride as dykes, they look very masculine and probably don't feel very feminine. They didn't choose to look or feel that way. I don't think men and women can switch back and forth. I think they can try to do it. I've heard of guys marrying, having kids, then coming out of the closet. What the hell would make them choose to do something like that? Do you really think those guys just wake up and decide they'd rather put their dick into another guy's ass? Just trash their lives up till now and move off in a new direction? Be hated by all the homophobes in the world? I think homosexual desires vary from person to person based on their genetic makeup. Maybe the ones that fall between 50 and 100% homosexual try switching back and forth in a fight to do what they want vs. what others think they should do and what others think is right or wrong. I think that sucks. I think about how much I like having sex with my wife or lusting after some import car model or just some hot chick on the street. I didn't choose to like women. I just do. I don't cheat on my wife - but I certainly watch porn and think about fucking other women. I see huge differences between thinking about doing something versus actually doing something. I think about people who feel so strongly attracted to people the same sex as they are. It pisses me off that they have to go through life persecuted. People telling them they're going to hell because they're going against God's will. People calling them fags and beating the shit outta them because of how they were born.

I've never read about the estrogen example you're speaking of, but I wouldn't be suprised that gay men have higher estrogen count. I'm glad you accept that they were born with it. If you're suggesting it can be treated through some kind of hormone therapy, I don't think homosexuality is treatable.

As far as your thoughts regarding homosexual marriages in the Christian Church - I don't see it happening anytime soon myself. I think that's too bad. I went to Catholic church till I was 30. I stopped when I realized I disagreed with so many things. I think responsible premarital sex is ok. I'm pro-choice. I think people should use birth control. I don't think prayer changes anything. I think church fucks up so many people in regards to having sex - it influences them to feel guilty about it rather than happy.

Thanks for reading.

 

Gay marriages etc. are unnatural and sick, and should be illegal... fuck them fags. Thumbs up for chicks making out tho!

 

There's a lot of mainline churches that either don't care about or affirm a homosexual orientation - one of my gay friends attends a very active Methodist church in his area, and they are wholly accepting and supportive of him. Another very devoted Christian friend of mine attends a UCC church with a lesbian pastor. So "Christian" and "homophobe" aren't always mutually inclusive.

 

Umm, the 2nd bible is not directly from god, its from moses interpritation of what god said. He smashed the first tabernacle when he came down from Mt. Sinai and saw the golden calf.

I have more issues with Tekken and DOA than gay marrage.

 

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GeeEhlSee said:

Gay marriages etc. are unnatural and sick, and should be illegal... fuck them fags. Thumbs up for chicks making out tho!

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What a FAG! /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

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Plague said:
tl;dr

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did you just come out of the closet?

 

Nice post, Plague. I'm convinced that our great grandchildren will read about history in the 21st century and be amazed that homosexuals were not allowed to marry one another.

One thing to also keep in mind, regarding the Bible, is that it's a collection/compilation of different gospels/materials. That process of selection (done by Constantine and a committee?) may be guided by political motivations as much as spiritual.

 

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Plague said:

Thanks for the support. Genetic research rocks. Plugging in numbers to determine what your kid will be like would be wild. Don't know what it would do to them when they find out their parents made them a certain way, though. Also, imagine if fat people could alter their coding to increase metabolism and become thin - or if women who wanted bigger breasts could just grow them naturally. I can't say whether this is all right or wrong, but it would be cool if people could pursue genetic resequencing by choice.


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Interesting that people always come up with shit like this when genetics are mentioned, which is exactly why the research gets banned in the first place.

I'm thinking more use it to cure genetic diseases and birth defects, not allow custom made children. Although to be honest people are already altering their bodies with surgery, so it might not be such a big deal in the future.

Same goes for geneic modified food. First thing some folk think about when they hear about it are apples with pigs ears sticking out of them - not the more moderate application to weat farming, that could feed millions of starving people in developing countries.

 

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MAXIMUM said:

[ QUOTE ]
Plague said:

Thanks for the support. Genetic research rocks. Plugging in numbers to determine what your kid will be like would be wild. Don't know what it would do to them when they find out their parents made them a certain way, though. Also, imagine if fat people could alter their coding to increase metabolism and become thin - or if women who wanted bigger breasts could just grow them naturally. I can't say whether this is all right or wrong, but it would be cool if people could pursue genetic resequencing by choice.


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Interesting that people always come up with shit like this when genetics are mentioned, which is exactly why the research gets banned in the first place.

I'm thinking more use it to cure genetic diseases and birth defects, not allow custom made children. Although to be honest people are already altering their bodies with surgery, so it might not be such a big deal in the future.

Same goes for geneic modified food. First thing some folk think about when they hear about it are apples with pigs ears sticking out of them - not the more moderate application to weat farming, that could feed millions of starving people in developing countries.

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Thing is dude we are with 6.5 to 7 billion people on this world at the moment yet the capacity is there to feed 12 billion people RIGHT FUCKING NOW(UN studies).
So there definitly is no need to start overproducing with untested products with no idea of knowing what the longer term effects will be.

We live in a sick world.

 

To start off, I find it interesting that people have registered on VFDC just to post a comment on this thread. I'm glad it generates interest.

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I said:

I think church fucks up so many people in regards to having sex - it influences them to feel guilty about it rather than happy.

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Zero-chan said:

There's a lot of mainline churches that either don't care about or affirm a homosexual orientation - one of my gay friends attends a very active Methodist church in his area, and they are wholly accepting and supportive of him. Another very devoted Christian friend of mine attends a UCC church with a lesbian pastor. So "Christian" and "homophobe" aren't always mutually inclusive.

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My sentence was far too general. I fail to be objective sometimes. I should've written that I've met people who've had less than happy experiences with church in regards to sex. Zero-chan makes a good point. My friend with all the psychological and theological training is an ordained Methodist minister. He's quite liberal and would not fall under my statement of church fucking people up. I also recall that the Episcopalians recently appointed a homosexual to a rather high ranking. Sorry to have just bashed churches in general.

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Hieter976 said:
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Plague said:
tl;dr


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did you just come out of the closet?


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Actually, Dandy_J said tl;dr earlier in the thread. I don't know what tl;dr means.

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MAXIMUM said:
Interesting that people always come up with shit like this (in regards to my thoughts of plugging in numbers to create a kid) when genetics are mentioned, which is exactly why the research gets banned in the first place.


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For me, it was the first thing that came to mind. I'm kind of shallow, vain, and self-centered from time to time so the superficial stuff is normally first on my mind. One of my design clients is a plastic surgeon and I had mentioned this thread somewhat briefly in regards to the genetic engineering comments. I figure they'd want to pursue genetics if body alteration by resequencing becomes commonplace.

The whole idea that you could create a person to personal specifications is of a huge magnitude. I think it would end up requiring all sorts of documentation regarding the definition of birth defect or genetic disorder. People might want some kind of standard to adhere to. People would need to copyright their own codes - Brad Pitt might not want 63 versions of himself running around.

Getting back to marriage, people's views are probably colored by what they think marriage is supposed to be. Do you think marriage is more of social contract involving rights, tax-write-offs and the like? Is it more of a spiritual sacred bond? A combination of both? I imagine homosexuals look at marriage the same ways and should be allowed to take advantage for it for any one or more of those reasons.