How big a role do reversals play in ur typical fight????

I have been really focusing on offensive aspects and guarding well, so i really havent explored reversals much. Is it tru that in vf4, there is no allowed delay in seeing the leg or arm go out? For instance, in DOA2, a reversal can still be performed if u input it at the time u start to see that leg or arm go out. Or must u just guess?

 

The only moves you can reverse on reaction are the really slow, charged-up ones. Aside from that, no, you have to anticipate an opponent's attack (that's why you don't see tournaments flooded with Aoi players).

 

Yeup. For the most part, reversals are a gamble -- but, they're very intimidating if you can pull them off. One I've foudn easy to reverse is Kage's 9K+G

 

One thing I don't like abt the changes the made to the reversal system in vf4

making it mid is just..uhm...fair yes...but the old way of reversing a kickflip took some serious mind work.

 

Hi!

Whenever I play Aoi, I will like use reversals 70% of the time. People may find this stupid cos reversals is a gamble (there is no 1 way to know what your opponent next move is unless it's a combo.) To me, I find that the reversals are very nice and I will have a sense of satisfaction if I manage to reverse my opponents' move. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif /versus/images/icons/tongue.gif /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

/versus/images/icons/smile.gif /versus/images/icons/tongue.gif /versus/images/icons/smile.gif "Look at my picture before my mule kick hit you in your face!" /versus/images/icons/smile.gif /versus/images/icons/tongue.gif /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

 

Being a Lei-Fei user its important to limit or disrupt your opponents flow of attack.

Lei's [IN] stance auto punch reversal usually catches:
-low punches
-jabs
-some dodge attacks
-other

If the opponent stops punching then half the battle is won already IMO. Generally all the other non-reversible punches and kick are throw counterable which is great as well.

So usually I'll stay in [IN] stance and catch any punches. If I sense a non counterable move I'll break stance and block then throw.

Not to mention my offensive options while inside [IN] stance are formidable as well.

 

The new reversal system sucks ass for Kage players, particularly vs Akira or Lau since you now not only have to anticipate a punch, you have to guess whether it's high (upknife, standing palm) or mid (downknife, single palm). Bleh.

 

i play Aoi and though it probably has more to do with my newbieness, i have only been able to execute her reversals like once a match iF i'm really lucky... usually i just get whomped.

 

The most common revs in my game would be against elbows, low punches and rising kicks. And timing the rev in anticipation isnt so much yomi as it is conditioning. You've noticed in someone's game that he's partial to a certain sequence or you force him into a position where its his most logical option -> then you rev. Fexaq's right about Kage though, its hard to rev punches against Lau + Aki. And does anybody ever get the [JM] sidekick rev.on anything other than the b,f+P+G | d/f+P+G setups ?

 

And does anybody ever get the [JM] sidekick rev.on anything other than the b,f+P+G | d/f+P+G setups ?

You can get the JM sidekick reverse off P+G, df+P+G, b,f+P+G, and b,d+P+G setups. Also after a dodge attack if the opponent doesn't TR and tries to use a high rising attack, and also after KD ~ JM PKK if the opponent doesn't TR and tries to use a high rising attack.

I've gotten the JM sidekick reverse off an opponent's regular side kick *very* occasionally, but it's more random than anything else.

 

For me, it depends on who I'm fighting against. I usually use Aoi, and versus Vanessa, Aoi, Jeffrey and Wolf players who like to crumple and low throw a lot, I do mid-counters all day long. I also keep an eye out for mid counter against Sarah and Jacky for crescent reverse, but that's only because I love the animation. Lau and Pai I usually throw in high or low reverse once in a while, just because you're bound to get the scrubby p,p,p, d+k every so often. I haven't bothered using counter against Lei or Lion much, and except for the low punch counter, I find myself busy dodging too much to worry about reversals against Akira. Against cpu characters though, usually they're fair game to my reversal practice, and on rare occasions I'll go through a few rounds using nothing except reversal to win, just for fun.


- ukie

 

Thanks, that rather helpful Fei. As for regular sidekick reving it is rare, but one way to condition it is against back crouch dashing opponents at the beginning of a round : opp. BCDs, Kage should move forward with something like senbon punch into helix into [JM] sidekick rev. If the sidekick rev. whiffs, I usually go straight into a JM dodge or JM P+K (hold) or JM K+G. But I dont feel TOO comfortable in JM so its mostly dodging.

 

If the sidekick rev. whiffs, I usually go straight into a JM dodge or JM P+K (hold) or JM K+G. But I dont feel TOO comfortable in JM so its mostly dodging.

Kage's JM in ver.C is incredibly useful. You have a couple of alternatives that you can use after throwing the opponent:

1) Helix (hold) ~ JM sidekick reversal against high rising attacks
2) Helix (hold) ~ JM f,f ~ JM K+G against low rising attacks (timing is pretty strict, but it's great when this works)
3) Helix (hold) ~ JM dodge just to fake out opponents once in awhile, and
4) Helix ~ uf+K+G to make opponents think that you're entering JM when you're not, and then obviously uf+K+G gives neutral initiative if blocked, can hit low risers easy, and can hit high risers if you time the collision phase to coincide with the high rising attack
5) Helix ~ stand+block or crouch+block vs high and low risers respectively. If the opponent performed a delayed rising kick and you blocked up or down correctly, then you can throw-counter or elbow-counter respectively.

 

sabaki, anyone?

<font color=yellow>Vanessa has your standard high and mid level attack reversals (b+P+K and db+P+K). I use them about 20% of the time. Vanessa can run an average reversal game; I think Aoi and Akira have the best reversal systems in the game. Pai's little game has about as many moves but the damage is miniscule by comparison; it's more about harassment and frustration more than damage. While reversal damage is sweet, I'm just starting to find out about the joy of sabaki. I can't say I know all the ins and outs of this part of the game but it's cool when you pull it off. Follow-up/combo potential exists as well. Worth exploring, eh? Just another piece in this Damage vs. The Attacking Opponent puzzle...</font color=yellow>

 

Re: sabaki, anyone?

question about aoi reversals. was playing my wolf against cpu aoi. she reversed wolfies knee multiple times. weird pick up and slam down animation. is this just a regular reversal with her? it didnt look like it was because wolf was on the way down from his knee......thought most attacks have to be in the first frames, not the last few.

 

it depends a lot on your mind-reading, the opponent you're playing against, who you're using(either you need to make sure they have reversals, or that reversing is worth the risk, for instance, doing reversals over and over w/aoi invites akiras to ShRm you to death) and other factors like that.

but in general, you find that good players of VF4 only reverse when they do option select(in general, this is the most effective way), for instance beating jeffry's 50/50 guessing game with d/b+P+K,d/f+P+G,f+P+G.

 

i am a pai player - i know she has a number of reversals. Her knee one is supposedly useful, no?

 

yes, for me its 50/50 at times. I usually setup a hyper playing style to get reactions to my play. From this is when i can predict the opponents attacks. But against good player, its much harder,
on a good day I'll get 5 reversals in a match against top players. with joe shmoes, 10 reversals is average. You kind of have to anticipate the attack, it does feel good when you get a great player 3 times and ruin his rythm. but it takes your offensive setup to get them to react. if you go just trying reversals like DOA, well its much harder here, and you'll get whopped like me when i try that..
later

grab-stino