How big a role do reversals play in ur typical fight????

Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by Akhet, Apr 10, 2002.

  1. Akhet

    Akhet Member

    I have been really focusing on offensive aspects and guarding well, so i really havent explored reversals much. Is it tru that in vf4, there is no allowed delay in seeing the leg or arm go out? For instance, in DOA2, a reversal can still be performed if u input it at the time u start to see that leg or arm go out. Or must u just guess?
     
  2. Robyrt

    Robyrt Well-Known Member

    The only moves you can reverse on reaction are the really slow, charged-up ones. Aside from that, no, you have to anticipate an opponent's attack (that's why you don't see tournaments flooded with Aoi players).
     
  3. GaijinPunch

    GaijinPunch Well-Known Member

    Yeup. For the most part, reversals are a gamble -- but, they're very intimidating if you can pull them off. One I've foudn easy to reverse is Kage's 9K+G
     
  4. SummAh

    SummAh Well-Known Member

    One thing I don't like abt the changes the made to the reversal system in vf4

    making it mid is just..uhm...fair yes...but the old way of reversing a kickflip took some serious mind work.
     
  5. Shundi_05

    Shundi_05 Well-Known Member

    Hi!

    Whenever I play Aoi, I will like use reversals 70% of the time. People may find this stupid cos reversals is a gamble (there is no 1 way to know what your opponent next move is unless it's a combo.) To me, I find that the reversals are very nice and I will have a sense of satisfaction if I manage to reverse my opponents' move. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif /versus/images/icons/tongue.gif /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

    /versus/images/icons/smile.gif /versus/images/icons/tongue.gif /versus/images/icons/smile.gif "Look at my picture before my mule kick hit you in your face!" /versus/images/icons/smile.gif /versus/images/icons/tongue.gif /versus/images/icons/smile.gif
     
  6. ken

    ken Well-Known Member

    Being a Lei-Fei user its important to limit or disrupt your opponents flow of attack.

    Lei's [IN] stance auto punch reversal usually catches:
    -low punches
    -jabs
    -some dodge attacks
    -other

    If the opponent stops punching then half the battle is won already IMO. Generally all the other non-reversible punches and kick are throw counterable which is great as well.

    So usually I'll stay in [IN] stance and catch any punches. If I sense a non counterable move I'll break stance and block then throw.

    Not to mention my offensive options while inside [IN] stance are formidable as well.
     
  7. feixaq

    feixaq Well-Known Member

    The new reversal system sucks ass for Kage players, particularly vs Akira or Lau since you now not only have to anticipate a punch, you have to guess whether it's high (upknife, standing palm) or mid (downknife, single palm). Bleh.
     
  8. plan17

    plan17 Active Member

    i play Aoi and though it probably has more to do with my newbieness, i have only been able to execute her reversals like once a match iF i'm really lucky... usually i just get whomped.
     
  9. MrWhite

    MrWhite Well-Known Member

    The most common revs in my game would be against elbows, low punches and rising kicks. And timing the rev in anticipation isnt so much yomi as it is conditioning. You've noticed in someone's game that he's partial to a certain sequence or you force him into a position where its his most logical option -> then you rev. Fexaq's right about Kage though, its hard to rev punches against Lau + Aki. And does anybody ever get the [JM] sidekick rev.on anything other than the b,f+P+G | d/f+P+G setups ?
     
  10. feixaq

    feixaq Well-Known Member

    And does anybody ever get the [JM] sidekick rev.on anything other than the b,f+P+G | d/f+P+G setups ?

    You can get the JM sidekick reverse off P+G, df+P+G, b,f+P+G, and b,d+P+G setups. Also after a dodge attack if the opponent doesn't TR and tries to use a high rising attack, and also after KD ~ JM PKK if the opponent doesn't TR and tries to use a high rising attack.

    I've gotten the JM sidekick reverse off an opponent's regular side kick *very* occasionally, but it's more random than anything else.
     
  11. ukie

    ukie Member

    For me, it depends on who I'm fighting against. I usually use Aoi, and versus Vanessa, Aoi, Jeffrey and Wolf players who like to crumple and low throw a lot, I do mid-counters all day long. I also keep an eye out for mid counter against Sarah and Jacky for crescent reverse, but that's only because I love the animation. Lau and Pai I usually throw in high or low reverse once in a while, just because you're bound to get the scrubby p,p,p, d+k every so often. I haven't bothered using counter against Lei or Lion much, and except for the low punch counter, I find myself busy dodging too much to worry about reversals against Akira. Against cpu characters though, usually they're fair game to my reversal practice, and on rare occasions I'll go through a few rounds using nothing except reversal to win, just for fun.


    - ukie
     
  12. MrWhite

    MrWhite Well-Known Member

    Thanks, that rather helpful Fei. As for regular sidekick reving it is rare, but one way to condition it is against back crouch dashing opponents at the beginning of a round : opp. BCDs, Kage should move forward with something like senbon punch into helix into [JM] sidekick rev. If the sidekick rev. whiffs, I usually go straight into a JM dodge or JM P+K (hold) or JM K+G. But I dont feel TOO comfortable in JM so its mostly dodging.
     
  13. feixaq

    feixaq Well-Known Member

    If the sidekick rev. whiffs, I usually go straight into a JM dodge or JM P+K (hold) or JM K+G. But I dont feel TOO comfortable in JM so its mostly dodging.

    Kage's JM in ver.C is incredibly useful. You have a couple of alternatives that you can use after throwing the opponent:

    1) Helix (hold) ~ JM sidekick reversal against high rising attacks
    2) Helix (hold) ~ JM f,f ~ JM K+G against low rising attacks (timing is pretty strict, but it's great when this works)
    3) Helix (hold) ~ JM dodge just to fake out opponents once in awhile, and
    4) Helix ~ uf+K+G to make opponents think that you're entering JM when you're not, and then obviously uf+K+G gives neutral initiative if blocked, can hit low risers easy, and can hit high risers if you time the collision phase to coincide with the high rising attack
    5) Helix ~ stand+block or crouch+block vs high and low risers respectively. If the opponent performed a delayed rising kick and you blocked up or down correctly, then you can throw-counter or elbow-counter respectively.
     
  14. sayow

    sayow Well-Known Member

    sabaki, anyone?

    <font color=yellow>Vanessa has your standard high and mid level attack reversals (b+P+K and db+P+K). I use them about 20% of the time. Vanessa can run an average reversal game; I think Aoi and Akira have the best reversal systems in the game. Pai's little game has about as many moves but the damage is miniscule by comparison; it's more about harassment and frustration more than damage. While reversal damage is sweet, I'm just starting to find out about the joy of sabaki. I can't say I know all the ins and outs of this part of the game but it's cool when you pull it off. Follow-up/combo potential exists as well. Worth exploring, eh? Just another piece in this Damage vs. The Attacking Opponent puzzle...</font color=yellow>
     
  15. gaishou

    gaishou Well-Known Member

    Re: sabaki, anyone?

    question about aoi reversals. was playing my wolf against cpu aoi. she reversed wolfies knee multiple times. weird pick up and slam down animation. is this just a regular reversal with her? it didnt look like it was because wolf was on the way down from his knee......thought most attacks have to be in the first frames, not the last few.
     
  16. ReCharredSigh

    ReCharredSigh Well-Known Member

    it depends a lot on your mind-reading, the opponent you're playing against, who you're using(either you need to make sure they have reversals, or that reversing is worth the risk, for instance, doing reversals over and over w/aoi invites akiras to ShRm you to death) and other factors like that.

    but in general, you find that good players of VF4 only reverse when they do option select(in general, this is the most effective way), for instance beating jeffry's 50/50 guessing game with d/b+P+K,d/f+P+G,f+P+G.
     
  17. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    Just to add to this list:

    6) dash fwd, Helix has the potential to cross over the opponent. Don't go to JM if you do this, because the stance is all but useless when you're back to back with the opponent. One Interesting thing is, the Sabaki will partly work when you're Back Turned -- the arm parry will deflect the attack, but of course, he continues to kick out in front of him, hitting nothing but air. You can also jumonji run (away from the opponent) with your back turned, too.
     
  18. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    The new reversal system sucks ass for Kage players, particularly vs Akira or Lau since you now not only have to anticipate a punch, you have to guess whether it's high (upknife, standing palm) or mid (downknife, single palm). Bleh.

    If it's any consolation, Akira's palms, being dependant on him standing/crouching, can help you in choosing the right reversal. That is, if he's standing, then reverse high, and if crouching, reverse mid. And with Lau's knives, if he's standing, then reverse mid, and if crouching, reverse high. You should be able to reverse his lunging knife on reaction too.

    I know that's overly simplifying things, but as many have said, the reversal game is all to do with conditioning and anticipation. Not being able to spam a reversal to catch all high/mid single hand attacks is OK with me.
     
  19. Akhet

    Akhet Member

    i am a pai player - i know she has a number of reversals. Her knee one is supposedly useful, no?
     
  20. MADrox

    MADrox Well-Known Member

    yes, for me its 50/50 at times. I usually setup a hyper playing style to get reactions to my play. From this is when i can predict the opponents attacks. But against good player, its much harder,
    on a good day I'll get 5 reversals in a match against top players. with joe shmoes, 10 reversals is average. You kind of have to anticipate the attack, it does feel good when you get a great player 3 times and ruin his rythm. but it takes your offensive setup to get them to react. if you go just trying reversals like DOA, well its much harder here, and you'll get whopped like me when i try that..
    later

    grab-stino
     

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